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Post by jonksy on Sept 2, 2023 16:53:15 GMT
He is going to struggle to get that proposal past the Irish...  whats your point? Just a bit more EUSSR punitive vindictiveness against the UK for leaving the EUSSR dictatorship. |
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Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2023 16:54:55 GMT
He is going to struggle to get that proposal past the Irish... whats your point? That the idea stands a snowball's chance in hell perchance? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 16:57:21 GMT
He is going to struggle to get that proposal past the Irish... whats your point? Paddy O'Leary will certainly have something to say about any French attempt to increase the cost of flights. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2023 17:11:12 GMT
UK growth has been poor throughout the years of Conservative administration from 2010 Amongst the many politicians and economists who warned David Cameron not to slash and burn public services were Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman, Alistair Darling, Nick Clegg and Vince Cable, the two Lib Dem MPs changed their minds after getting ministerial positions and fancy cars. Evidence is in the data - we came out of recession in 2009 under Gordon Brown, growth began to accelerate, but then fell back soon after the coalition came to power. Growth was cut off The UK economy teetered on the very edge of a second recession ( The Double Dip ) and in 2013 the UK credit rating was reduced, something that George Osborne said would not happen if we followed his plan. Everything in this country since 2010 has gone backwards, even life expectancy, which is a damning statistic not seen in any other industrialised, developed democracy. many have also argued new labour inherited the best set of balanced books any government have inherited in the modern political era , lived off the back of Thatchers radicalism , and helped encourage the financial bust with their policy failure in financial regulation.
Not to mention allowing public debt to rise higher than it need be , and saddling future generations with over a hundred billion in pfi debt , all put onto future governments books.
Im not a conservative voter , but clearly many of the policy failures and bad decisions of the new labour years were left for future conservative and snp governments to deal with . As ever , the turd polishing and re writing of history continues from the forums new labour worshipper.
The current new labour party is nothing more than an excercise in futiley finding new ways to promise nothing to those of us in these islands wanting change. I do hope the polls are wrong , and your party receives the kicking it so desperately deserves from joe public.
In terms of inheriting a budget with the largest Budget Surplus in modern times, that would be the election of 1970 when Edward Heath inherited the largest budget surplus in the modern era from the government of Harold Wilson. So let us look at this claim that Tony Blair let public sector debt rise higher than it needed to be In 1997 the TRUE measure of public debt was 40.4% of GDP ..... In 2007, ten years later the figure was 36.4%, and this was despite real terms increases in public spending, in particular on improving the NHS. At no time during Tony Blairs ten years as Prime Minister was the budget deficit / public sector debt, as high as it was during the early to mid 1990s under John Major. PFI ( Private Finance Initiatives ) introduced originally by a Conservative government, but used more widely by the Labour government of 1997 - 2010. PFI debt is not in the Red Cash Book of the UK Treasurey, and PFI is not part of official UK public sector debt, instead the contracts (debt) are held by individual hospitals, health trusts, local authorities or Local Education Authorities, and treated much the same as mortgages. MYTH - PFI is crippling the NHS FACT - PFI accounts for one pound in every £55 spent on the NHS ( FullFact.Org ) In 6 years from now, PFI payments will take a nose dive and begin to fall rapidly as contracts, one by one begin coming to an end. Its gratifying to know that our Scottish poster would rather have our economy and public services kept in the state they are in today, rather than the state they were in back in 2010. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 17:14:32 GMT
The revised stats make our comparative growth look even better.  |
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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 17:47:16 GMT
Paddy O'Leary will certainly have something to say about any French attempt to increase the cost of flights. right. So you have went from implying "the irish" as in the nation and their government would somehow veto macrons plan , to now saying rent a gob O`leary is going to shout his mouth off at this plan? O `Leary has been a critic of both the EU and Irish governments i nthe past over various issues , im not sure they are going to give any more of a shit today than they did yesterdayover his comments.
Why will anyone else listen to o`leary when you didnt over brexit?
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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 18:14:37 GMT
many have also argued new labour inherited the best set of balanced books any government have inherited in the modern political era , lived off the back of Thatchers radicalism , and helped encourage the financial bust with their policy failure in financial regulation.
Not to mention allowing public debt to rise higher than it need be , and saddling future generations with over a hundred billion in pfi debt , all put onto future governments books.
Im not a conservative voter , but clearly many of the policy failures and bad decisions of the new labour years were left for future conservative and snp governments to deal with . As ever , the turd polishing and re writing of history continues from the forums new labour worshipper.
The current new labour party is nothing more than an excercise in futiley finding new ways to promise nothing to those of us in these islands wanting change. I do hope the polls are wrong , and your party receives the kicking it so desperately deserves from joe public.
In terms of inheriting a budget with the largest Budget Surplus in modern times, that would be the election of 1970 when Edward Heath inherited the largest budget surplus in the modern era from the government of Harold Wilson. So let us look at this claim that Tony Blair let public sector debt rise higher than it needed to be In 1997 the TRUE measure of public debt was 40.4% of GDP ..... In 2007, ten years later the figure was 36.4%, and this was despite real terms increases in public spending, in particular on improving the NHS. At no time during Tony Blairs ten years as Prime Minister was the budget deficit / public sector debt, as high as it was during the early to mid 1990s under John Major. PFI ( Private Finance Initiatives ) introduced originally by a Conservative government, but used more widely by the Labour government of 1997 - 2010. PFI debt is not in the Red Cash Book of the UK Treasurey, and PFI is not part of official UK public sector debt, instead the contracts (debt) are held by individual hospitals, health trusts, local authorities or Local Education Authorities, and treated much the same as mortgages. MYTH - PFI is crippling the NHS FACT - PFI accounts for one pound in every £55 spent on the NHS ( FullFact.Org ) In 6 years from now, PFI payments will take a nose dive and begin to fall rapidly as contracts, one by one begin coming to an end. Its gratifying to know that our Scottish poster would rather have our economy and public services kept in the state they are in today, rather than the state they were in back in 2010. i didnt say any of this sid , and you are completely misrepresenting me once again.heres what i said on the economy that new labour inherited...
its a fact that unlike any of his predesscessors in labour , blair inherited an economy that was growing , unemployment falling and a strong pound. So its fair to say blair governed during the sunlight of an economic boom gifted to him , yet his party still managed to help create the financial crash , and left unemployment higher than they found it.
the uk national debt as a percentage of gdp was higher at the end of the new labour term , that what it was when they took office. The new labour government didint end in 2007 sid. once again you are being hoighly dishonest and misleading.
i hvent said otherwise. I didnt agree with the tories introducing the first one in scotland in 1992 , and i didnt agree with labour rapidly using them more widely when they came to power in 1997 .you are merely throiwng in a red herring here sid.
thats the point im making sid , and why the pfi debt sleight of hand by new labour was so beloved of brown and blair. They could spend massively , cook the books , hide the debt and make future generations pay massively more for decades than what the capital cost was , in many cases five to seven times more.
They have crippled local government in scotland ( and england im sure) for decades wit htheir extortionate financial legacy , and must never be let anywhere near government again.
you saddled the scottish nhs alone with a pfi debt of £30 billion , and england with an £80 billion debt from memory. Its hardly a trifling amount sid. In this documentary on PFI/PPP, Reporter Campbell Martin reveals potential criminality and establishment cover-up in a PPP schools contract now costing taxpayers over £1m every month.
i tell you what i do know sid. That almost everyone on this forums knows that whatever the problems of the uk economy , starmers new labour arent the answer to them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2023 18:44:09 GMT
Dishonesty is to not take into account vital facts which make highly significant contributions to data
I could say for example that UK public sector debt was a staggering 83% of GDP in 2019, but then of course this was at the very height of the Pandemic and lockdown, furlough and increased spending. Not the fault of the then Conservative government.
The period after 2007 also saw a crisis, the world wide banking crisis and recession which followed was no more the fault of Gordon Brown or Tony Blair, as what the Covid19 Pandemic was the fault of Boris Johnson.
I refered to the ten "normal" years of Labour 1997 - 2007, where public services improved due to higher investment in those services, and all without excessive borrowing. It was a period of ten years of sustained growth, low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates and good quality public services which all improved.
Today many of our public services are almost not fit for purpose, firstly we had David Cameron and Theressa May who cut 20,000 police officers, then we got Boris who then re-recruited 20,000 police officers ... its like The Grand Old Duke Of York who marched them up to the top of the hill, and then marched them back down again.
Not even a Monster Raving Loony Party government could be worse than how things now are
I also know the REAL reason why any SNP supporter hates Labour just now - one only has to look at the opinion polls.
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Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2023 18:45:36 GMT
The revised stats make our comparative growth look even better. Only if you can get them to revise the 2022 figures up too. Can you? |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 2, 2023 18:47:16 GMT
Dishonesty is to not take into account vital facts which make highly significant contributions to data I could say for example that UK public sector debt was a staggering 83% of GDP in 2019, but then of course this was at the very height of the Pandemic and lockdown, furlough and increased spending. Not the fault of the then Conservative government. The period after 2007 also saw a crisis, the world wide banking crisis and recession which followed was no more the fault of Gordon Brown or Tony Blair, as what the Covid19 Pandemic was the fault of Boris Johnson. I refered to the ten "normal" years of Labour 1997 - 2007, where public services improved due to higher investment in those services, and all without excessive borrowing. It was a period of ten years of sustained growth, low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates and good quality public services which all improved. Today many of our public services are almost not fit for purpose, firstly we had David Cameron and Theressa May who cut 20,000 police officers, then we got Boris who then re-recruited 20,000 police officers ... its like The Grand Old Duke Of York who marched them up to the top of the hill, and then marched them back down again. Not even a Monster Raving Loony Party government could be worse than how things now are I also know the REAL reason why any SNP supporter hates Labour just now - one only has to look at the opinion polls. I told them months ago they were voting Labour. They just didn't know it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 21:08:57 GMT
Paddy O'Leary will certainly have something to say about any French attempt to increase the cost of flights. right. So you have went from implying "the irish" as in the nation and their government would somehow veto macrons plan , to now saying rent a gob O`leary is going to shout his mouth off at this plan? O `Leary has been a critic of both the EU and Irish governments i nthe past over various issues , im not sure they are going to give any more of a shit today than they did yesterdayover his comments.
Why will anyone else listen to o`leary when you didnt over brexit?
One of the largest companies in Ireland and a business that is responsible for 25,000 jobs in Ireland.. ..you can bet the Irish Government will be listening.. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 2, 2023 22:55:21 GMT
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Post by thomas on Sept 3, 2023 7:20:41 GMT
right. So you have went from implying "the irish" as in the nation and their government would somehow veto macrons plan , to now saying rent a gob O`leary is going to shout his mouth off at this plan? O `Leary has been a critic of both the EU and Irish governments i nthe past over various issues , im not sure they are going to give any more of a shit today than they did yesterdayover his comments.
Why will anyone else listen to o`leary when you didnt over brexit?
One of the largest companies in Ireland and a business that is responsible for 25,000 jobs in Ireland.. ..you can bet the Irish Government will be listening.. didnt the majority of businesses and business groups in the uk support remain in 2016? You and your fellows , including prominent leave politicians didnt listen , so im not sure why the irish is now subject to your golden rule of listening to business when it suits when you and yours didnt.
The republic of ireland and its people , and the wider european union dont exist to service the business whims of o `Leary.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 3, 2023 7:33:23 GMT
One of the largest companies in Ireland and a business that is responsible for 25,000 jobs in Ireland.. ..you can bet the Irish Government will be listening.. didnt the majority of businesses and business groups in the uk support remain in 2016? You and your fellows , including prominent leave politicians didnt listen , so im not sure why the irish is now subject to your golden rule of listening to business when it suits when you and yours didnt.
The republic of ireland and its people , and the wider european union dont exist to service the business whims of o `Leary.
what are you talking about tommo? - the UK government agreed with UK businesses and advocated remaining in the EU. Why do you think that the Irish Government will treat their businesses any different? |
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Post by thomas on Sept 3, 2023 7:41:27 GMT
The period after 2007 also saw a crisis, the world wide banking crisis and recession which followed was no more the fault of Gordon Brown or Tony Blair, as what the Covid19 Pandemic was the fault of Boris Johnson. I refered to the ten "normal" years of Labour 1997 - 2007, where public services improved due to higher investment in those services, and all without excessive borrowing. It was a period of ten years of sustained growth, low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates and good quality public services which all improved. Its called cherry picking data sid. New labour governed sadly for 13 years , and we are still paying the price for that today in many ways. the comparion between brown and blair and the financial crash and johnson and covid is a nonsense.
Brown and blair refused to regulate banking despite calls for them to do so. Their light touch regulation contributed to the banking crash. i dont like boris johnson , but blaming him for covid is up there with the birds.
which ive mentioned in your post previously.
there was excessive borrowing. Because you hid this from public accounts through PFI disasters , doesnt mean it didnt exist of the taxpayer wouldnt pay it back. Heres another example of labours disasterous pfi debt whcih was put n place in your so called golden years before the financial crash....
A Labour council, operating under a Labour Scottish Executive and a Labour government at Westminster, needed to spend £150m on its schools, but rather than use a small fraction of the effectively free money that was sitting around unspent in the Executive’s coffers, signed off on a PFI contract that would cost Scottish taxpayers £729m to do the exact same job.
this would then later lead to the very same north lanarkshire council to make 1300 employees redundant and hundreds of millions of cuts due to the insane pfi debt and financial legacy your new labour party bequeathed them from your pre 2007 golden years you consistently waffle about.
eh? many of the schools and hospitals you built under pfi were later found to be crumbling and in bad condition like oxgangs primary in edinburgh , built by a building company that were cronies of new labour politicians.
As i always say about you sid , you pick really silly hills to die on. defending labour legacy on mass uncontrolled immigration in previous threads , and now their disasterous pfi legacy is simply stupid. New labour legacy of shame.
Fury at £729m bill to build schools worth a fifth of that amount
TAXPAYERS will be saddled with debut until 2036-37 after North Lanarkshire Council entered into the Private Finance Initiative.
North Lanarkshire (Labour) Council were accused of saddling a generation of taxpayers with a “damaging legacy” by entering into a 31-year Private Finance Initiative to build 24 schools.
The council made their first payment in 2006-7 and will have paid the £150million capital cost by 2016-2017.
But under the terms of the deal, taxpayers will not be free of the debt until 2036-37
im not an snp supporter. Im a scot indy supporter. We have pr in scotland sid , that your new labour party brought in , and only use fptp for your parliament. The polls are indeed looking better for your party , but still a far cry from the days when scotland was treated as your fiefdom.
Dont count your chickens till they come home to roost though sid. Unfortunately for you we scots have long memories , and so do many english people.
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