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Post by dappy on Aug 22, 2023 10:27:02 GMT
I note your choice of language Dan. I expect it is supposed to be provocative but in reality just makes you look silly.
Perhaps the majority of football supporters are more interested in the skills of the players than the colour of the skin
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Post by Hutchyns on Aug 22, 2023 10:37:50 GMT
Dan Dare
Greenwood, who I believe has one England cap to his name, and who is contracted to United till the Summer of 2025, should in theory at least have a decent resale value, particularly bearing in mind his young age. However, given the circumstances, it's inevitable that he'll be offloaded on the cheap. Think back to Referee pushing Paolo DiCanio being cast adrift by Sheffield Wednesday ....the cloud under which the player left, benefitted West Ham who could pick the player up for comparative peanuts given his ability.
But the wider issue comes back to, as so many situations in modern society do, to Cultural Marxism and its all pervasive influence. Just imagine Sainsbury's becoming a major advertiser on GB News for instance. Cancel Culture being what it is, and the Left's effective ability to organise boycotts, and Sainsbury's fortunes as well as their share price would fall through the floor. Any member of Britain's middle class Left would suffer social purgatory if seen setting foot in a Sainsbury store.
You've already got MPs, Rachel Riley, and the usual Leftist loudmouths rattling United's cage with dire warnings of what could happen if they play Greenwood ..... and that's as nothing compared to if they'd actually put him back in the team next Saturday. United's global brand would feel the full wrath of Militant Feminism combined with the affluent middle class who are the one's that can afford to buy their merchandise and their Season tickets, the number crunchers would have concluded the reputational damage to the global brand would far outweigh the costs, financial and otherwise of ushering Greenwood out of the door at a knockdown price.
Mind you, it will be interesting to see if any British club is brave enough/foolhardy enough to snap up young Greenwood. The British Woke never forgive, and an apology is useless ..... Greenwood can never be redeemed in their eyes, redemption is impossible. Sign him up and you'll have the BBC, your Womens Team, and every aggressive Lesbian in town shaking their fist at you ...... plus every Labour/Lib Dem politician anxious to curry favour with the 'wimin' ..... they'll all come out of the woodwork to condemn you.
I can't imagine that young Greenwood necessarily wants to move abroad, or that picking up a foreign lingo would come that easy to him, but is he now too hot to touch for the home market ?
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 22, 2023 11:11:00 GMT
dappy: It's hard to say what modern football supporters are interested in, particularly those who follow the London clubs. There doesn't seem much of a premium placed these days on the players and team having local connections. In last night's game, for example, the two squads totalled 39 players, 22 of whom are foreigners. Of the 17 that are eligible to play for England, a majority were black. Several of the latter could yet opt to represent their country of birth or ancestry, rather than England.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 22, 2023 11:16:32 GMT
I can't imagine any English club under Arab ownership being too perturbed at the prospect of a Feminazi backlash if they were to take on Greenwood. Newcastle perhaps, or even City or Aston Villa. They're all pretty much immune to any financial pressures. Then there's PSG too.
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Post by Orac on Aug 22, 2023 11:20:36 GMT
Perhaps the majority of football supporters are more interested in the skills of the players than the colour of the skin Okay. Let's put skin colour to one side for a moment. Why does a football fan support one team rather than any other?
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 22, 2023 11:39:52 GMT
When I was growing up you were either a Red or a Blue, no other options available. You couldn't suddenly switch to Wolves because they won the League or you liked the colour of the shirt. You'd be ridiculed to death.
How it works today I have simply no idea especially, as noted, in London where the native population has effectively dribbled away.
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Post by Hutchyns on Aug 22, 2023 11:59:57 GMT
Dan Dare
The allegiance remains primarily to the club, rather than loyalty to the particular set of players who wear the team's shirt during any one season.
Sticking with London, if you look at West Ham who have moved 'home' in recent years, a considerable number of their fans travel in from Basildon, Southend, Chelmsford, Maidstone etc. Their parents and grandparents more than likely East Enders with a natural affinity for West Ham, but the family .... call it 'White Flight' or whatever, will have moved several miles outside of London, but they flood back in on a matchday specifically for the game, and head back out to Essex and Kent once the final whistle is blown. And that fan base is considerably 'paler' than those you see inhabiting the surrounding area of the football stadium, or indeed most of West Ham team.
But back to last night's game, and I wouldn't be surprised if analysis didn't reveal, and Palace would know from their stats regarding season tickets, whether a greater proportion of their crowd travel in from Horsham, Crawley, Dorking, etc, than actually live in Croydon anymore .... or even come anywhere near Croydon unless there's a game on.
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 22, 2023 12:11:00 GMT
I think that the decision about Greenwood is just about pragmatism. If they kept him on they would never hear the last of it from the many detractors - who are not necessarily female. He had to go - and he'll probably end up abroad. Good.
I think it's a great pity that so many of our footballers are Black, especially in the England men's team. I think one of the main reasons why the women's team have received so much support is because they're white and therefore representative of their country - ENGLAND, in case we've forgotten. Maybe that's why they're more successful than the men's team? They actually identify with their country unlike most of the players in the men's team. And, I should point out, that the women won the penalty shoot out against Nigeria - whereas our men's team lost their last penalty shoot out because ALL the Black players missed. Fact. Is it a coincidence that Southgate supports BLM and makes our players "take the knee"? Prat.
As for Greenwood he brought it on himself. I don't think it's any coincidence that it's black footballers who are over-represented in this type of crime. Just as it isn't a coincidence that it's muslims who are going round the country raping young white girls.
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Post by Orac on Aug 22, 2023 12:21:34 GMT
When I was growing up you were either a Red or a Blue, no other options available. You couldn't suddenly switch to Wolves because they won the League or you liked the colour of the shirt. You'd be ridiculed to death. How it works today I have simply no idea especially, as noted, in London where the native population has effectively dribbled away. Dappy suggests that the real focus of fans is the skill of the team. I just can't see how that can be true. It would mean all football fans supported one or two teams - ie the two teams competing at the top of tables. As a non football fan, my view is that the draw of football fandom is the drama-narrative-story of your town / your people/ your nation, struggling against another town-people-nation. Then we get to brass tacks - what makes a nation-people-town really yours? and, if this sort of thing isn't allowed, then what is the draw of football fandom and what is football but another 'media product'? I may as well support the most successful games developer because they sell more games than any other. Vacuous
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2023 12:44:40 GMT
This looks like another miscarriage of justice. Female fans say he is guilty of something, but what?
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Post by Paulus de B on Aug 22, 2023 12:47:52 GMT
I just can't see how that can be true. It would mean all football fans supported one or two teams - ie the two teams competing at the top of tables. As a non football fan, my view is that the draw of football fandom is the drama-narrative-story of your town / your people/ your nation, struggling against another town-people-nation. Then we get to brass tacks - what makes a nation-people-town really yours? and, if this sort of thing isn't allowed, then what is the draw of football fandom and what is football but another 'media product'? I may as well support the most successful games developer because they sell more games than any other. Vacuous It can't be purely geographical any more, because the vast majority of fans/viewers never go near a stadium - they watch electronically. I enjoy a match more if I have a preference for one team over another - teams of equal(ish) quality from the same part of the country are boring because I can't bring myself to care who wins. Normally, the nearer a team is to the North West of England, the more I want it to win; with underdogs also being preferred to the mega-successful teams. There's also an ABL bias, though it's not as extreme as a Scot's ABE bias, for example, I'd prefer even a London club to beat a foreign team. The greater interest in white players rather than non-white players is also there - I just find them easier to identify with. That's a personal foible rather than any sort of political position - to do with my age, perhaps - because I know that non-whites can be perfectly patriotic Britons, and skin colour is the least reliable measure of virtue. Re Greenwodd, what happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 22, 2023 13:13:26 GMT
@orac: the 'home town' aspect of football clubs is of course their raison d'être in the first place. It's why we have Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday for example, rather the Don Valley Chiefs or the Steel City Typhoons.
Mind you with so many English clubs now coming under American ownership, or other foreign ownerships which admire the American way of doing things, there is constant pressure to adopt a mindset that football clubs no longer need to be associated with a specific location but are instead portable franchises that can be relocated anywhere in pursuit of maximising revenues and profits. That sort of thing happens routinely in American sports business.
It's a bit surprising that Manchester United have not already been relocated to London and renamed the MU Glazerballs or some such. I'm sure the Glazers would be able to a deal with their co-religionists Levy and Lewis for a shared tenancy of the TH Stadium (no longer associated with White Hart Lane note) and can then flog off OT for a shopping mall or theme park, with luxury apartments included natch.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 22, 2023 13:18:14 GMT
Re Greenwodd, what happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? The club has stated in its announcement this week that they do not believe he commited the acts he was accused of.
But that hasn't prevented them from adopting a policy of appeasement.
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Post by bancroft on Aug 22, 2023 13:28:50 GMT
Charges being dropped does make him innocent just that the evidence was not strong enough to convict.
Now some don't think he is innocent and are making their voices known, they have made their minds up.
Italy and Turkey are leagues showing interest, I would say Turkey might be the better destination or even Saudi Arabia.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 22, 2023 17:06:13 GMT
I think that the decision about Greenwood is just about pragmatism. If they kept him on they would never hear the last of it from the many detractors - who are not necessarily female. He had to go - and he'll probably end up abroad. Good. This was always going to happen - why on earth Man U dragged it out for so long is bizarre. With his record he was never going to carry on as before as though nothing had happened. He will go overseas, try to resurrect his career and the media circus in the UK will move on.
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