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Post by sheepy on Aug 19, 2023 13:05:13 GMT
Not me shame on stupid people. Shame on you for being to cowardly to address the question. Just your glib statement about stupid people which doesn't last a second in real life. Stupid old ladies conned out of their savings. Stupid kids talked into taking drugs But then I would call it wise, not getting drawn into a made up scenario from your mind so you can back up your own beliefs.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 19, 2023 13:31:53 GMT
My late mother in law was inundated with junk mail from charities and mail order companies . The answer is to make it illegal to send a letter without a license , right. County lines ( and other ) drug gangs sometimes use a specific phone with all of the customers phone numbers ( one guy near me was stabbed for his one ) . Kids sometimes use bikes to deliver drugs . So the answer is to issue licences to ride bikes and use mobile phones …jeez.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 19, 2023 15:57:43 GMT
Yes, without adding anything to the conversation. Nope. Pointing out your ridiculousness is adding to the conversation . You don’t seem to understand that “ The internet should be a universally accessible medium for communication..” IS actually adding something to the conversation. I suspect that your idea of adding something to the conversation is agreeing with you Telephones are universally accessible, but you still can't hurl abuse down them or use them to cheat people out of the money. Your soundbite is meaningless.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 19, 2023 16:05:07 GMT
Interesting ideas. I think we could achieve your goals without a physical need to remove wireless access. Apart from that I broadly agree. Children in particular should have monitored access. The easy way to restrict access is to require registration. I think why might need to kick this idea around quite a lot to get it workable. I'd miss you too. No. registration is even more dangerous than allowing children unfettered access. Democracy needs people to be able to have a conversation in the public arena that isn't monitored and vetted by a government who can easily find out who they are. Any public arena can be monitored? Every other public arena is monitored and vetted by government, why should the internet be different? But the parents need the tools to do this. Unless you are suggesting that we isolate young Grace from all her friends by taking away her phone then you need some way of controlling who she can access. I'm afraid the cat is out of the bag, the world has moved on, social media is here to stay. Only an extreme fascist state could close it down as your idea requires. Even China and Russia struggle to stop Telegram etc.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 19, 2023 16:10:01 GMT
Nope. Pointing out your ridiculousness is adding to the conversation . You don’t seem to understand that “ The internet should be a universally accessible medium for communication..” IS actually adding something to the conversation. I suspect that your idea of adding something to the conversation is agreeing with you Telephones are universally accessible, but you still can't hurl abuse down them or use them to cheat people out of the money. Your soundbite is meaningless. There are no telephone scams or abusive calls? What are you talking about?
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Post by Orac on Aug 19, 2023 16:17:37 GMT
No. registration is even more dangerous than allowing children unfettered access. Democracy needs people to be able to have a conversation in the public arena that isn't monitored and vetted by a government who can easily find out who they are. Any public arena can be monitored? Every other public arena is monitored and vetted by government, why should the internet be different? This is not true. If i bump into my neighbors and have a conversation, the government would not know who i am. If i heckle a comedian and make a loud comment, nobody knows who I am. If I say something controversial loudly in a pub, the government don't know who I am. If people (in all above situations) agree with my commentary, they don't have to worry about being visited by the government the next day.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 19, 2023 16:29:39 GMT
Telephones are universally accessible, but you still can't hurl abuse down them or use them to cheat people out of the money. Your soundbite is meaningless. There are no telephone scams or abusive calls? What are you talking about? And with that I think I'll ignore you.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 19, 2023 16:31:27 GMT
There are no telephone scams or abusive calls? What are you talking about? And with that I think I'll ignore you. Maybe, if you decide not to ignore me in the future , you could post something sensible.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 19, 2023 16:36:49 GMT
Any public arena can be monitored? Every other public arena is monitored and vetted by government, why should the internet be different? This is not true. If i bump into my neighbors and have a conversation, the government would not know who i am. If i heckle a comedian and make a loud comment, nobody knows who I am. If I say something controversial loudly in a pub, the government don't know who I am. If people (in all above situations) agree with my commentary, they don't have to worry about being visited by the government the next day. If you bump into our neighbours in a public arena? How often do you do that? If you say something illegal in a pub/ restaurant/ theatre. You are likely to be arrested and then the police will know exactly who you are. In fact the internet is about the only place you can make illegal disgusting sexist remarks without being caught. The odds of you going to a public place where everyone supports an illegal opinion are zero.
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Post by Orac on Aug 19, 2023 16:51:23 GMT
This is not true. If i bump into my neighbors and have a conversation, the government would not know who i am. If i heckle a comedian and make a loud comment, nobody knows who I am. If I say something controversial loudly in a pub, the government don't know who I am. If people (in all above situations) agree with my commentary, they don't have to worry about being visited by the government the next day. If you bump into our neighbours in a public arena? How often do you do that? If you say something illegal in a pub/ restaurant/ theatre. You are likely to be arrested and then the police will know exactly who you are. In fact the internet is about the only place you can make illegal disgusting sexist remarks without being caught. The odds of you going to a public place where everyone supports an illegal opinion are zero. If you say 'something illegal' (whatever the hell that is?) in a pub, the chances are you will not be arrested because the government or police don't have a searchable, historical archive of everything said in a pub. They can't (for instance) peruse this archive at their leisure, taking particular notice of when political enemies (who they can easily identify) make comments that might be interpreted as 'illegal'. I go back to my original point - what you seem totally fixated on doing is far, far more dangerous than any of the maladies you wish to cure with it. What i will suggest is that the authorities should pursue internet fraud far more enthusiastically. One possible route might be to threaten several countries with excommunication unless they clean up their act.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 19, 2023 17:07:11 GMT
If you bump into our neighbours in a public arena? How often do you do that? If you say something illegal in a pub/ restaurant/ theatre. You are likely to be arrested and then the police will know exactly who you are. In fact the internet is about the only place you can make illegal disgusting sexist remarks without being caught. The odds of you going to a public place where everyone supports an illegal opinion are zero. If you say 'something illegal' (whatever the hell that is?) in a pub, the chances are you will not be arrested because the government or police don't have a searchable, historical archive of everything said in a pub. They can't (for instance) peruse this archive at their leisure, taking particular notice of when political enemies (who they can easily identify) make comments that might be interpreted as 'illegal'. I go back to my original point - what you seem totally fixated on doing is far, far more dangerous than any of the maladies you wish to cure with it. If you say something illegal on the internet odds are you wont get arrested as the government do not have a searchable historic archive of everything said on the internet. It would take Mi5 and all its operatives 10 years to search one days worth of internet comments. Your fear of government persecution is verging on paranoia, its never happened, it will never happen. The thought police are fictional. So I disagree with your original point. I do not fear having to have a driving licence, a passport, a national insurance number, or a tax code. I might if I lived in North Korea, but I don't.
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Post by Orac on Aug 19, 2023 17:49:21 GMT
If you say 'something illegal' (whatever the hell that is?) in a pub, the chances are you will not be arrested because the government or police don't have a searchable, historical archive of everything said in a pub. They can't (for instance) peruse this archive at their leisure, taking particular notice of when political enemies (who they can easily identify) make comments that might be interpreted as 'illegal'. I go back to my original point - what you seem totally fixated on doing is far, far more dangerous than any of the maladies you wish to cure with it. If you say something illegal on the internet odds are you wont get arrested as the government do not have a searchable historic archive of everything said on the internet. It would take Mi5 and all its operatives 10 years to search one days worth of internet comments. Your fear of government persecution is verging on paranoia, its never happened, it will never happen. The thought police are fictional. So I disagree with your original point. I do not fear having to have a driving licence, a passport, a national insurance number, or a tax code. I might if I lived in North Korea, but I don't. If there is a id mark in, or easily implied by, every communication, the communication of a person, or persons, can be archived and searched. With AI, we can expect this to become more and more powerful - ie a further and further reach for what can be detected. "it has never happened" he says as he regularly presses and petitions for what amounts to thought crime so that it can happen. We are in a funny period - Germany seems going full democracy again and t's doubtful there will be a real democracy in the UK a few years. I'm try to draw things out so people can speak a bit longer before people like you close down our society entirely. My answer is no - you don't get to introduce something so damn dangerous because you have trouble recognising scam emails.
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Post by sheepy on Aug 19, 2023 17:51:01 GMT
Where does using it to insult other people's mothers count in this bigger picture? not that anyone might notice.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 20, 2023 8:01:13 GMT
If you say something illegal on the internet odds are you wont get arrested as the government do not have a searchable historic archive of everything said on the internet. It would take Mi5 and all its operatives 10 years to search one days worth of internet comments. Your fear of government persecution is verging on paranoia, its never happened, it will never happen. The thought police are fictional. So I disagree with your original point. I do not fear having to have a driving licence, a passport, a national insurance number, or a tax code. I might if I lived in North Korea, but I don't. If there is a id mark in, or easily implied by, every communication, the communication of a person, or persons, can be archived and searched. With AI, we can expect this to become more and more powerful - ie a further and further reach for what can be detected. "it has never happened" he says as he regularly presses and petitions for what amounts to thought crime so that it can happen. We are in a funny period - Germany seems going full democracy again and t's doubtful there will be a real democracy in the UK a few years. I'm try to draw things out so people can speak a bit longer before people like you close down our society entirely. My answer is no - you don't get to introduce something so damn dangerous because you have trouble recognising scam emails. I wonder what on earth it is you want to say that the authorities would expend such a huge amount of money on to control it. When we already live with an internet where someone can challenge children to overdose with no consequence.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 20, 2023 8:20:00 GMT
FYI. If the authorities want to track down the author of some comment they can already do so using a number of metrics including your IP address. Google account, Bank account cookies etc.
What they cannot currently do is stop you setting up another IP address the day after the shut the first down.
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