|
Post by zanygame on Sept 1, 2023 18:55:46 GMT
Did the top 10% of the country have 60% of the wealth back then? No - but they were not as mobile either. If you were a financier in the City in 1975 you had to go into the office every day - nowdays you can (and probably do) all your work from home. That home can just as easily be in Dubai as Dorking. This idea that people will sit around waiting to be taxed is last century thinking - as other countries have already found out. But then the left in the UK never learn.. Yer but they don't stay because its the best tax rate. They stay because their home is here, their friends, their family, their football team, their golf and shooting club. The tax rate has to get real bad before they leave all that. But I'm not suggesting 97p in the pound.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 1, 2023 19:24:00 GMT
This tired old argument. When I setup my business I did not consider the tax I might have to pay if I got rich. I just dreamt of getting rich. I've done it have you? I got plenty of money, I could pay more tax and still have plenty money. It goes like this. 1, I've got an idea and I think it will make me rich. 2, Work hard ups/downs fight , good times bad times.. 3, Success, big enough to ride out the ups and downs, money in the bank, holidays cars wine etc. 4, More money than I need, invest? 5, Still more money than I need. I could pay more tax and still be plenty OK. But let me turn it back on you, what is your solution? I'll read this again tomorrow, but I'm not sure I understand it at all, so if you've got more explanation that would be good. The NHS is able to treat more and more conditions keep us alive ever longer, but it costs money. At the same time more and more of the money is going to less and less of the people. Over to you I disagree, I think its due to automation.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Sept 1, 2023 21:25:39 GMT
No - but they were not as mobile either. If you were a financier in the City in 1975 you had to go into the office every day - nowdays you can (and probably do) all your work from home. That home can just as easily be in Dubai as Dorking. This idea that people will sit around waiting to be taxed is last century thinking - as other countries have already found out. But then the left in the UK never learn.. Yer but they don't stay because its the best tax rate. They stay because their home is here, their friends, their family, their football team, their golf and shooting club. The tax rate has to get real bad before they leave all that. But I'm not suggesting 97p in the pound. It's easy to say that people will not leave, but that is exactly what other countries who introduced wealth taxes found they did.. You may be right and British exceptionalism would mean that wealth taxes work - I doubt it very much though.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 1, 2023 22:24:58 GMT
Yer but they don't stay because its the best tax rate. They stay because their home is here, their friends, their family, their football team, their golf and shooting club. The tax rate has to get real bad before they leave all that. But I'm not suggesting 97p in the pound. It's easy to say that people will not leave, but that is exactly what other countries who introduced wealth taxes found they did.. You may be right and British exceptionalism would mean that wealth taxes work - I doubt it very much though. They tried it in Norway recently, virtually no one left. 38.2% tax rate
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 6:27:41 GMT
It's easy to say that people will not leave, but that is exactly what other countries who introduced wealth taxes found they did.. You may be right and British exceptionalism would mean that wealth taxes work - I doubt it very much though. They tried it in Norway recently, virtually no one left. 38.2% tax rate 30 Norwegian multimillionaires emigrated in 2022, more than the total no. of large taxpayers who left during the previous 13 years
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 2, 2023 7:08:33 GMT
But tax revenue still went up?
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 7:10:37 GMT
The 'additional information' gives you an idea of why Government revenue increased last year... "In a desperate attempt to stop high taxpayers leaving the country, Norway has said it is investigating the possibility of an “exit tax” where individuals are taxed on saved capital income the moment they move out of the country."
"The OECD has warned that wealth taxes have a negative impact on long-term growth, damaging entrepreneurship and risk-taking."
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 2, 2023 8:58:23 GMT
The 'additional information' gives you an idea of why Government revenue increased last year... "In a desperate attempt to stop high taxpayers leaving the country, Norway has said it is investigating the possibility of an “exit tax” where individuals are taxed on saved capital income the moment they move out of the country."
"The OECD has warned that wealth taxes have a negative impact on long-term growth, damaging entrepreneurship and risk-taking."
They haven't done it though have they and revenues rose And even if they had it still worked. Some left those who remained paid more. At what level of tax does the OECD warn this? No sensible person would claim the Laffer curve does not exist. Its the level it tips at that is falsely set just above the current level.
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Sept 2, 2023 9:31:49 GMT
I've done it have you? I got plenty of money, I could pay more tax and still have plenty money. Like i said before, your silly and vague anecdote makes no odds to reality and you use it in preference to reason. You claim your personal experience tells you Earth is flat and that our maps are irrelevant. Economics starts with the notion that actors (in aggregate) are motivated by the advantage of an action to themselves. Change the advantages and disadvantages and the behavior changes. Having money is always a significant and important advantage over not having it.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 11:04:55 GMT
The 'additional information' gives you an idea of why Government revenue increased last year... "In a desperate attempt to stop high taxpayers leaving the country, Norway has said it is investigating the possibility of an “exit tax” where individuals are taxed on saved capital income the moment they move out of the country."
"The OECD has warned that wealth taxes have a negative impact on long-term growth, damaging entrepreneurship and risk-taking."
They haven't done it though have they and revenues rose And even if they had it still worked. Some left those who remained paid more. At what level of tax does the OECD warn this? No sensible person would claim the Laffer curve does not exist. Its the level it tips at that is falsely set just above the current level. Look at why revenues rose...
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 2, 2023 11:43:55 GMT
I've done it have you? I got plenty of money, I could pay more tax and still have plenty money. Like i said before, your silly and vague anecdote makes no odds to reality and you use it in preference to reason. You claim your personal experience tells you Earth is flat and that our maps are irrelevant. Economics starts with the notion that actors (in aggregate) are motivated by the advantage of an action to themselves. Change the advantages and disadvantages and the behavior changes. Having money is always a significant and important advantage over not having it. Talk about over simplified reasoning. If what you say was true civilisation could never have formed. Fact is people recognise that a reasonably fair and equal society is a good place to live and they actively engage in such a thing. Its why Westernised countries do well and South American and Asian ones not so well.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 2, 2023 11:59:24 GMT
The answer to taxation and government funding?
From the top -
There are (broadly speaking) two things people do to make money.
Or they work for someone else and get paid. Or they do jobs others want done for remuneration.
So what's the market value of keeping the mentally unwell secure and treated?
How many licenses the clear fly tipping do you think they would sell?
Private police force?
And not do the things no one else will do like check restaurants for hygiene standards etc.
It would also mean most things would get done.
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Sept 2, 2023 12:37:23 GMT
Like i said before, your silly and vague anecdote makes no odds to reality and you use it in preference to reason. You claim your personal experience tells you Earth is flat and that our maps are irrelevant. Economics starts with the notion that actors (in aggregate) are motivated by the advantage of an action to themselves. Change the advantages and disadvantages and the behavior changes. Having money is always a significant and important advantage over not having it. Talk about over simplified reasoning. If what you say was true civilisation could never have formed. Fact is people recognise that a reasonably fair and equal society is a good place to live and they actively engage in such a thing. I have no idea why you think what i have said is in contradiction to this. People spread an ethic of fairness because it is in their interests for the people around them to be fair.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 2, 2023 12:50:17 GMT
Talk about over simplified reasoning. If what you say was true civilisation could never have formed. Fact is people recognise that a reasonably fair and equal society is a good place to live and they actively engage in such a thing. I have no idea why you think what i have said is in contradiction to this. People spread an ethic of fairness because it is in their interests for the people around them to be fair. TBH Your claims are so vague its hard to address them.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 6, 2023 6:38:11 GMT
|
|