|
|
Post by Orac on Aug 26, 2023 19:10:58 GMT
Name a State monopoly that provides good customer service.. Name one that hasn't had its funding cut. The NHS provided a very good service under new Labour. I think the public conclude (on a political level) that they aren't going to get a service no matter what they do, so there is little point paying a lot for it. The government conclude the same. The monopoly allows both ends to be squeezed - at one end the government is blackmailed with the prospect of the bad reputation of not providing the service and public are blackmailed with not getting the service but still paying tax. I think it all came to a head in eighties which is why so many of these services were privatised. If you gave the Civil service unions the ability to cut off the nation's electricity now, god only knows what they use that power for - Nigel Farage's lights would go out after about day 4 |
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Aug 26, 2023 19:14:01 GMT
It didn't. The NHS is Labour's football, so when they're in power they hush up about it. Overpriced private contractors replaced areas of the Trust whilst the political pen pushers got even richer. The situation as it stands today is directly related, because it lacks the reform that it needs. It was never a good service, but it's better than nothing. Patient satisfaction disagreed with you He does have a point and Blair’s privatisation by the back door along with pfi. NHS should be run by a cross party commission. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2023 19:18:33 GMT
It didn't. The NHS is Labour's football, so when they're in power they hush up about it. Overpriced private contractors replaced areas of the Trust whilst the political pen pushers got even richer. The situation as it stands today is directly related, because it lacks the reform that it needs. It was never a good service, but it's better than nothing. Patient satisfaction disagreed with you You can rely on propaganda if you like, but I am basing my argument on reality. Labour patched it with overpriced privateers and wasted a lot of money to the point it is unsustainable. The situation hasn't really changed other than it being more political than ever, whilst Labour's idiocy is showing its effect. Even today Tony Blair is calling for an expanded role for the private sector in the NHS, which is what he set out to do when he conned the people. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Aug 26, 2023 19:19:06 GMT
Name one that hasn't had its funding cut. The NHS provided a very good service under new Labour. No the public were very happy with the NHS. Even now despite the Tories best efforts they still don't want it privatised. Agreed. Certainly the unions carry their share of blame |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Aug 26, 2023 21:25:43 GMT
Name a State monopoly that provides good customer service.. Name one that hasn't had its funding cut. The NHS provided a very good service under new Labour. LOL - I actually used the NHS under New Labour. Very good service is definitely not what happened.. Want to have another go? |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Aug 26, 2023 21:28:46 GMT
They were starved of funds because that is what State Monopolies do. Politicians of all stripes (before you start playing partisan politics) only look short term to the next election - so if they have money available for spending it is going to go on things like tax cuts, higher welfare handouts, more pay for nurses etc etc. Trying to get extra spending for investment that the electorate is not going to notice for another 10 to 20 years long after the politicians of today are out of office is incredibly difficult. This rather weird obsession with privatisation overlooks the rather inconvenient fact that the Water services in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland were never privatised - and all are in the same boat with the same issues as the companies in England. So you keep saying. Doesn't make it right, nor does it make privatisation the answer. It's not right or wrong it is simply life. You seem to want something that is not on offer. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Aug 26, 2023 21:44:13 GMT
Name one that hasn't had its funding cut. The NHS provided a very good service under new Labour. LOL - I actually used the NHS under New Labour. Very good service is definitely not what happened.. Want to have another go? You have mentioned your bad experience before. While I don't doubt you for a moment, but polls tell you a different story. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Aug 26, 2023 21:50:23 GMT
LOL - I actually used the NHS under New Labour. Very good service is definitely not what happened.. Want to have another go? You have mentioned your bad experience before. While I don't doubt you for a moment, but polls tell you a different story. The polls said we wouldn't leave the EU and that Trump would never be President. Meanwhile reality intervened,, |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 27, 2023 4:51:09 GMT
I'm not sure how you drew that from my posts. I thought i was pretty clear. The difficulty arises when both parties line up together in opposition to some substantial bulk of the population on a subject that is important. Examples are immigration and the EU My point is that this phenomena (probably) feels wonderful for the fraction of the population on the government's side on the issue, but it causes a serious legitimacy problems over time - esp if it is a persistent and repeated (apparently deliberate) pattern. You seem to have forgotten your own words again. Let me help. You said, The British public had a choice between a nationalised provider that might be used to overturn elections and a private-ish approach that would reliably provide electricity There is no referendum. IIRC, one major party offered continuing nationalisation and the other offered privatization. Some time near the late eighties probably. So you think that if an elected party does something its because the electorate wanted them to and voted for them, But if an elected party does something you don't want its against the wishes of the electorate. An elected government bought loads of migrants into the country. An elected government took us out of the EU. So which elected government is legitimate? It's very simple, Zany.
The Tories were elected on the promise of getting Brexit done. They also promised to cut migration.
Both were voted for, only one was delivered.
If an elected party delivers on an election promise then it is doing what was voted for.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 27, 2023 4:53:03 GMT
Well personally I'm all up for direct democracy - I do feel however that your love of it might diminish once its in action.. ..but if your happy - sounds good. I'm all for considering what the people want (Not just old Tories ofcourse) I think it might get different results to that you think if people were well informed of the consequences of their desires. No one would ever vote Labour if that happened. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Aug 27, 2023 6:18:30 GMT
You have mentioned your bad experience before. While I don't doubt you for a moment, but polls tell you a different story. The polls said we wouldn't leave the EU and that Trump would never be President. Meanwhile reality intervened,, Those polls were close. The ones I linked are not. Satisfaction with the NHS was indisputably high. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Aug 27, 2023 6:21:35 GMT
You seem to have forgotten your own words again. Let me help. You said, The British public had a choice between a nationalised provider that might be used to overturn elections and a private-ish approach that would reliably provide electricity There is no referendum. IIRC, one major party offered continuing nationalisation and the other offered privatization. Some time near the late eighties probably. So you think that if an elected party does something its because the electorate wanted them to and voted for them, But if an elected party does something you don't want its against the wishes of the electorate. An elected government bought loads of migrants into the country. An elected government took us out of the EU. So which elected government is legitimate? It's very simple, Zany.
The Tories were elected on the promise of getting Brexit done. They also promised to cut migration.
Both were voted for, only one was delivered.
If an elected party delivers on an election promise then it is doing what was voted for.
Yes obviously, but why are you telling me instead of Orac. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Aug 27, 2023 6:22:39 GMT
I'm all for considering what the people want (Not just old Tories ofcourse) I think it might get different results to that you think if people were well informed of the consequences of their desires. No one would ever vote Labour if that happened. If you say so. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Aug 27, 2023 8:09:03 GMT
No the public were very happy with the NHS. Even now despite the Tories best efforts they still don't want it privatised. Yes it is what happened. It just didn't happen in all nationalised services. You have been avoiding the obvious like this for most of this thread. A monopoly creates a potential political weapon. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Aug 27, 2023 8:15:51 GMT
No the public were very happy with the NHS. Even now despite the Tories best efforts they still don't want it privatised. Yes it is what happened. It just didn't happen in all nationalised services. You have been avoiding the obvious like this for most of this thread. A monopoly creates a potential political weapon. I haven't avoided it. I just think in some cases nationalised is better than private ownership. Those cases being where the product is essential and there is no competition. If I acknowledge nationalised services can become political footballs, that doesn't change my view above which already takes this factor into consideration. |
|
