|
|
Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 9:07:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 9:50:26 GMT
Drownings don't appear to stop them trying.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 9:58:00 GMT
Nor does the EU's "Frontex" despite the service receiving a budget of €754,375,142.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 10:06:35 GMT
Is that part of Frontex's mission statement? Perhaps if Frontex had a budget big enough to actually guard the border they'd be deterred from setting off in the first place.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 10:34:12 GMT
Anyway Vinny, what do you think the EU ought to be doing that they aren't doing now?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 10:51:20 GMT
They are border and coastguards.
They should be guarding the borders and coastlines and preventing illegal entry repatriating illegal immigrants back to the ports of origin.
They should be identifying people smugglers and detaining them.
And the courts should treat the smugglers as murderers and give them whole life sentences.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 11:21:04 GMT
Sounds like you're demanding the EU do things that the UK doesn't. Isn't that a little hypocritical?
|
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Aug 9, 2023 11:25:27 GMT
They are border and coastguards. They should be guarding the borders and coastlines and preventing illegal entry repatriating illegal immigrants back to the ports of origin. They should be identifying people smugglers and detaining them. And the courts should treat the smugglers as murderers and give them whole life sentences. How do you know these migrants are illegal? They are not illegal in the laws and treaties of the UN since 1958 and ratified in 1965. They are not illegal until their applications for asylum fail. In addition they cannot be sent back from where they came if they are fleeing inhumane treatment. That is called tefoulement and is illegal. . Still the same iggy problem. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 11:55:33 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Aug 9, 2023 12:09:41 GMT
It's the same problem mate.
Where is your border force?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 12:19:43 GMT
That doesn't make you immune from a charge of hypocrisy for making demands that the EU takes actions that the UK government doesn't.
And anyway, Frontex's role is primarily one of surveillance and coordination, not rescuing migrants at sea. It doesn't have the assets to do that. Its operations assist the national authorities who have the primary responsibility for border protection and search and rescue.
That's not to say of course that the EU shouldn't take control which of course it should since the Italians and Greeks et al are making a piss-poor job of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 12:27:12 GMT
Glad that in the final line you recognise there's a valid reason for this thread to be on this board.
People are dying, the EU has the institutions and the means to take charge and try to save lives.
All involved are doing a piss poor job.
And regarding the English Channel, yes our government and the French are failing there too.
That doesn't mean I can't post a thread on here about people drowning in the Med.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 12:35:38 GMT
I'm not disputing that the thread is in the proper place, rather your one-eyed criticism of the EU for not doing things the UK government isn't doing either.
The EU may have the means, which I dispute, but it doesn't have the authority to 'take charge'. It should be able to so do but national governments too jealously guard their own prerogatives in the matter of border control, even though they make a very poor job of it.
I'd like to see a Frontex with a budget orders of magnitude greater than at present and with de facto control over all naval assets and border protection forces in every country which forms part of the external border. Including France.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 13:03:33 GMT
Member state governments authorised the establishment of Frontex for a reason.
The most important thing right now is finding ways to reduce the deaths.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Aug 9, 2023 13:50:40 GMT
Incorrect. The most important thing is to stop the traffic. Do that and you automatically stop the deaths.
|
|
