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Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 14:55:16 GMT
I agree stopping the traffic stops the deaths.
The French were able to destroy the Greenpeace flagship, why can't they destroy smuggler boats?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2023 15:00:03 GMT
I agree stopping the traffic stops the deaths. The French were able to destroy the Greenpeace flagship, why can't they destroy smuggler boats? Because both would be murder, Vinny. It's easy to talk about people we don't know that dies. 41 people who others knew and loved, but we didn't. 41 people will not be arriving on our shores, but there are plenty more where they cam from. Life is cheap on the Med, or so it seems.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 9, 2023 20:23:14 GMT
I agree stopping the traffic stops the deaths. The French were able to destroy the Greenpeace flagship, why can't they destroy smuggler boats? Because both would be murder, Vinny. It's easy to talk about people we don't know that dies. 41 people who others knew and loved, but we didn't. 41 people will not be arriving on our shores, but there are plenty more where they cam from. Life is cheap on the Med, or so it seems. They most likely would not arrive on your shores. They were off the coast of Lampedusa in Italy. I am constantly amazed at the casually off handed assumption i see in here and elsewhere that people are either parcels to be posted somewhere or not human at all. Civilised humanity has a long way to go.
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Post by wapentake on Aug 9, 2023 21:17:39 GMT
Because both would be murder, Vinny. It's easy to talk about people we don't know that dies. 41 people who others knew and loved, but we didn't. 41 people will not be arriving on our shores, but there are plenty more where they cam from. Life is cheap on the Med, or so it seems. They most likely would not arrive on your shores. They were off the coast of Lampedusa in Italy. I am constantly amazed at the casually off handed assumption i see in here and elsewhere that people are either parcels to be posted somewhere or not human at all. Civilised humanity has a long way to go. Civilisation is a very thin veneer,one which we may see easily peeled back in the not too distant future and most probably by your beloved eu.because of the movement of people.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 9, 2023 21:24:24 GMT
I agree stopping the traffic stops the deaths. The French were able to destroy the Greenpeace flagship, why can't they destroy smuggler boats? Because both would be murder, Vinny. It's easy to talk about people we don't know that dies. 41 people who others knew and loved, but we didn't. 41 people will not be arriving on our shores, but there are plenty more where they cam from. Life is cheap on the Med, or so it seems. Multiple ways to destroy boats. Doesn't have to mean killing. Drilling. Slashing. Burning.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 10, 2023 5:48:11 GMT
They most likely would not arrive on your shores. They were off the coast of Lampedusa in Italy. I am constantly amazed at the casually off handed assumption i see in here and elsewhere that people are either parcels to be posted somewhere or not human at all. Civilised humanity has a long way to go. Civilisation is a very thin veneer,one which we may see easily peeled back in the not too distant future and most probably by your beloved eu.because of the movement of people. People have always moved. Do you suggest that no one be allowed to cross the border of where they were born and remain a prisoner of the state?
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 10, 2023 5:52:33 GMT
Because both would be murder, Vinny. It's easy to talk about people we don't know that dies. 41 people who others knew and loved, but we didn't. 41 people will not be arriving on our shores, but there are plenty more where they cam from. Life is cheap on the Med, or so it seems. Multiple ways to destroy boats. Doesn't have to mean killing. Drilling. Slashing. Burning. So how does this solve the problem of what to do with the occupants of the boats you have destroyed? The enemy isnt the boats, it is a combination of people traffickers and the governments which make life impossible for those who want to leave.
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Post by wapentake on Aug 10, 2023 6:29:29 GMT
Civilisation is a very thin veneer,one which we may see easily peeled back in the not too distant future and most probably by your beloved eu.because of the movement of people. People have always moved. Do you suggest that no one be allowed to cross the border of where they were born and remain a prisoner of the state? You wonder at the replies you get,do you ever read what people say? Of course people have always moved but the situation and world population is different now,this country has long welcomed and absorbed people fleeing persecution. There are the smugglers criminals and the people they smuggle some of which are criminal too and many which are not fleeing persecution but have in their minds a right to come and do as they wish When I say the veneer of civilisation is thin look to the east of the eu and places like Hungary and Poland where the attitudes to others is very different from the liberal democracies further west and witnessed by the treatment of foreign students leaving the Ukraine when Russia invaded. Now look to the so called liberal democracies in the west,there is a growing perception they are failing and let’s face it the idea of democracy hasn’t been long held in many of those western states either. I’m just telling you what I believe is happening that the tide of people movement will increase massively,already fearful people in Europe will rebel if nothing is done which is where you may well see that veneer of civilisation disappear.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 10, 2023 6:37:33 GMT
Civilisation is a very thin veneer,one which we may see easily peeled back in the not too distant future and most probably by your beloved eu.because of the movement of people. People have always moved. Do you suggest that no one be allowed to cross the border of where they were born and remain a prisoner of the state? That indeed is the future - welcome to your 15 minute neighbourhood.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 10, 2023 6:48:15 GMT
The idea that one country can unilaterally control its own borders was ALWAYS an impossibility. All nations need to act together to manage migration. And it wont stop by sinking boats. Climate change is going to drive instability in adolescent governments in vulnerable places and the resulting terrorism that civil wars bring.thank goodness i wont have to live in such a world.
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Post by wapentake on Aug 10, 2023 6:56:17 GMT
The idea that one country can unilaterally control its own borders was ALWAYS an impossibility. All nations need to act together to manage migration. And it wont stop by sinking boats. Climate change is going to drive instability in adolescent governments in vulnerable places and the resulting terrorism that civil wars bring.thank goodness i wont have to live in such a world. Why are you near to end of life?if not you may have no choice in the world you live in and the eu won’t ensure your comfortable world.
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 10, 2023 13:13:19 GMT
I agree stopping the traffic stops the deaths. The French were able to destroy the Greenpeace flagship, why can't they destroy smuggler boats? Because both would be murder, Vinny. But one was politically acceptable … But i think maybe you made certain assumptions here. Clearly, there is a thriving business in the sale of rubber boats. There must be because they sure as hell don’t go back So what is so bloody difficult about finding, seizing and destroying any whose owners are unable to produce suitable evidence of ownership for legitimate purposes Do you have ANY idea of the paperwork dive clubs have to maintain to legally operate a RIB for that purpose ? Hard shell boats like the offshore 105 diving and fishing charter workhorse are even worse. So it’s dead easy to stop, seize and destroy any other. Trace the sources. Raid them. Close them down. All it needs is political will. Of Which the french have none despite ripping us off for funds they say they need to do it.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 11, 2023 10:40:39 GMT
Because both would be murder, Vinny. But one was politically acceptable … But i think maybe you made certain assumptions here. Clearly, there is a thriving business in the sale of rubber boats. There must be because they sure as hell don’t go back So what is so bloody difficult about finding, seizing and destroying any whose owners are unable to produce suitable evidence of ownership for legitimate purposes Do you have ANY idea of the paperwork dive clubs have to maintain to legally operate a RIB for that purpose ? Hard shell boats like the offshore 105 diving and fishing charter workhorse are even worse. So it’s dead easy to stop, seize and destroy any other. Trace the sources. Raid them. Close them down. All it needs is political will. Of Which the French have none despite ripping us off for funds they say they need to do it. Agreed.
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