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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 22, 2023 20:56:22 GMT
There is talk of the only way the Tories can win is if they abandon net zero. As this has been their manifesto policy in 2019 and they have been pushing it for 4 years, how on earth are they going to dump it? Are they saying the majority of people will support a non net zero party? Because currently there is not one amongst the major players. Not intended for discussing climate change, but policies. I don't think Sunak has ever been sold on net zero, I get the impression he's gone along with it because he is expected to, it's the new religion. But who knows, things might change. I think the Tories one glimmer of hope in next years election may be to back peddle on things like banning petrol/diesel vehicles by 2030 - forcing people to accept Ulez - making people poorer with all this net zero by 2050 nonsense. Yes a minority of outraged lefties will glue themselves to roads and make a nuisance of themselves but the governments first concern should be the economy and nothing will damage the economy more than net zero and the irony is, forcing us into net zero poverty wont make a scrap of difference on a global level. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 22, 2023 21:08:29 GMT
We are still burning things to produce power. There is nothing particularly remarkable and new about electricity - we have had that since the genesis of the IC engine. Not with hydro, tidal, solar, geothermal we are not. Look, think logically about it.
Plan A:
A power station. It is huge, cost a lot of time and money to build, then it also costs a lot to fuel it and the whole thing is very complicated and needs constant servicing and upkeep.
Plan B:
Find a steep southern facing hillside, ideally 30-40 degree incline, dump a load of solar panels on it lying flat and staked down, rigged up to the grid. It's all plug and play, and as the manager you can just bring up a webpage to see how much power you have generated and how much cash has gone into your account for the next 25 years. You may need to clean once in while perhaps, but virtually minimal upkeep.
Suppose capital investment is cheaper for Plan B for an equivalent amount of energy. suppose solar panels become dirt cheap. These are the things we aught to be thinking about.
Interesting snippet about the area required for a coal power station compared to a wind farm. A 1MW coal power station provided electricity for c500,000 homes. A wind farm with a foot print four times larger than a 1MW coal power station provides electricity for c50,000 homes, when it's windy. Solar is similar, the land area required for wind and solar is vast and regardless of the nonsense the eco lobby spew out neither are cheap or reliable. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 22, 2023 23:29:23 GMT
It's currently pissing down outside - how many rolling blackouts would we have if we were reliant on solar power... Have you never heard of HVDC? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 22, 2023 23:31:31 GMT
You are not thinking like and engineer, but a politician. Have another thing about the point of that post. Get your calculator out and compute it. You made the comparison with land use - which was daft. On the patronising attitude front, I don't consider you to be domain competent enough to be giving people advice about how to think No I didn't. I said how you construct it with very little cost and effort and so it is reliable. This is why I suggested you think like an engineer, not a screamy politician. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 22, 2023 23:53:57 GMT
Not with hydro, tidal, solar, geothermal we are not. Look, think logically about it.
Plan A:
A power station. It is huge, cost a lot of time and money to build, then it also costs a lot to fuel it and the whole thing is very complicated and needs constant servicing and upkeep.
Plan B:
Find a steep southern facing hillside, ideally 30-40 degree incline, dump a load of solar panels on it lying flat and staked down, rigged up to the grid. It's all plug and play, and as the manager you can just bring up a webpage to see how much power you have generated and how much cash has gone into your account for the next 25 years. You may need to clean once in while perhaps, but virtually minimal upkeep.
Suppose capital investment is cheaper for Plan B for an equivalent amount of energy. suppose solar panels become dirt cheap. These are the things we aught to be thinking about.
Interesting snippet about the area required for a coal power station compared to a wind farm. A 1MW coal power station provided electricity for c500,000 homes. A wind farm with a foot print four times larger than a 1MW coal power station provides electricity for c50,000 homes, when it's windy. Solar is similar, the land area required for wind and solar is vast and regardless of the nonsense the eco lobby spew out neither are cheap or reliable. There would be a lot more farmers doing solar power if it were not for the stupid government and their dilapidated grid. They get delayed years while the electricity people get around to it.
Anyway, what would you do with a hill at a 30-40 degree incline? It's most profitable use is solar. If we powered the entire national demand for electricity it would only use 0.5% of the country. That is not a problem. I wish people in this country were better engineers and economists. We miss out on so many cool business opportunities. The biggest problem I see is when the fuctwit politicians are running it. They are clueless. British Volt was the latest example if that.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 23, 2023 10:46:32 GMT
There is talk of the only way the Tories can win is if they abandon net zero. As this has been their manifesto policy in 2019 and they have been pushing it for 4 years, how on earth are they going to dump it? Are they saying the majority of people will support a non net zero party? Because currently there is not one amongst the major players. Not intended for discussing climate change, but policies. I don't think Sunak has ever been sold on net zero, I get the impression he's gone along with it because he is expected to, it's the new religion. But who knows, things might change. I think the Tories one glimmer of hope in next years election may be to back peddle on things like banning petrol/diesel vehicles by 2030 - forcing people to accept Ulez - making people poorer with all this net zero by 2050 nonsense. Yes a minority of outraged lefties will glue themselves to roads and make a nuisance of themselves but the governments first concern should be the economy and nothing will damage the economy more than net zero and the irony is, forcing us into net zero poverty wont make a scrap of difference on a global level. Doesn’t the economy depend on building and buying new stuff? Totally agree that the cost of living crisis is a barrier, but doesn't doing nothing lead to stagnation? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 23, 2023 11:07:55 GMT
I don't think Sunak has ever been sold on net zero, I get the impression he's gone along with it because he is expected to, it's the new religion. But who knows, things might change. I think the Tories one glimmer of hope in next years election may be to back peddle on things like banning petrol/diesel vehicles by 2030 - forcing people to accept Ulez - making people poorer with all this net zero by 2050 nonsense. Yes a minority of outraged lefties will glue themselves to roads and make a nuisance of themselves but the governments first concern should be the economy and nothing will damage the economy more than net zero and the irony is, forcing us into net zero poverty wont make a scrap of difference on a global level. Doesn’t the economy depend on building and buying new stuff? Totally agree that the cost of living crisis is a barrier, but doesn't doing nothing lead to stagnation? That is the whole point of Net Zero. You wont be buying as much 'stuff', you wont be going on holidays to foreign lands, you will be restricted to your 15 minute neighbourhood and will need a permit to leave if you have a car.. It's Green Party nirvana... |
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Post by Orac on Jul 23, 2023 11:10:54 GMT
Once the basic system is in place it will be relatively uncontroversial to erect walls etc
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 23, 2023 12:50:27 GMT
I don't think Sunak has ever been sold on net zero, I get the impression he's gone along with it because he is expected to, it's the new religion. But who knows, things might change. I think the Tories one glimmer of hope in next years election may be to back peddle on things like banning petrol/diesel vehicles by 2030 - forcing people to accept Ulez - making people poorer with all this net zero by 2050 nonsense. Yes a minority of outraged lefties will glue themselves to roads and make a nuisance of themselves but the governments first concern should be the economy and nothing will damage the economy more than net zero and the irony is, forcing us into net zero poverty wont make a scrap of difference on a global level. Doesn’t the economy depend on building and buying new stuff? Totally agree that the cost of living crisis is a barrier, but doesn't doing nothing lead to stagnation? A healthy economy depends on many things, but few are as important as affordable and reliable energy. If industry cant rely on affordable energy it will close or relocate. A good example is BASF the largest chemical company in the world who recently announced that as a direct result of high energy costs they are relocating from Germany to China, a coal based economy. The writing is on the wall. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 16:35:54 GMT
Once the basic system is in place it will be relatively uncontroversial to erect walls etc Hopefully you are joking. Gove is trying to lead the rowing back on net zero. A more vile man is difficult to find, imo. I wonder if the Conservative Party central office are working on the wording of some announcement, saying, sorry about the last 4 years, we've decided to do Net Zero lite. i.e. Net+ |
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Post by Orac on Jul 23, 2023 17:02:57 GMT
The Conservatives are under pressure. You may have also noted that many Conservative party candidates talk as if they are actually conservative for about three months before every election. They return to form as soon as polling closes
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 17:56:15 GMT
The Conservatives are under pressure. You may have also noted that many Conservative party candidates talk as if they are actually conservative for about three months before every election. They return to form as soon as polling closes Yes. That is another problem we have to deal with. The fables of elastic manifestos. The electorate should be able to spot the lies a mile off, but sadly, they don't! |
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Post by wapentake on Jul 23, 2023 21:19:19 GMT
It's currently pissing down outside - how many rolling blackouts would we have if we were reliant on solar power... And those privatised water companies ( no I’m not getting in to that argument with you again ……yet)  Keep telling us water is a precious resource,it might be in the Sahara but not here. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 23, 2023 21:41:05 GMT
It's currently pissing down outside - how many rolling blackouts would we have if we were reliant on solar power... And those privatised water companies ( no I’m not getting in to that argument with you again ……yet) Keep telling us water is a precious resource,it might be in the Sahara but not here. well it's precious because we have massively increased the population through importing migrants and have nowhere new to save the water we have. |
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Post by wapentake on Jul 23, 2023 21:46:31 GMT
And those privatised water companies ( no I’m not getting in to that argument with you again ……yet) Keep telling us water is a precious resource,it might be in the Sahara but not here. well it's precious because we have massively increased the population through importing migrants and have nowhere new to save the water we have. Yes we do they just haven’t built new reservoirs,only 8% of the UK is urbanised. Have you seen kielder water? built to serve the industry that never came but shrank thanks to Maggie. We have plenty of water just don’t collect enough. |
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