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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2023 9:03:23 GMT
Apart from the China temp which in terms of comparisons with past temperatures isn't do you have a list of which records are currently being broken as you keep saying they are? No I don't because its not the point. Most places have an all time high temperature from some distant past. An unusual set of circumstances in a localised area such as a high pressure held in place by the weather around it for a prolonged period. In 1913 one country in 1842 another. What we are seeing now is a global heatwave, every country is having an exceptionally hot summer. Not global, Zany. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jul 19, 2023 9:52:14 GMT
We've been saved by the position of the gulf stream. If it was a little higher on the map we'd be sweltering too. Personally I'm very grateful as it's harvest time and I don't want to be shocking up wheat in the high 30Cs like last year.  |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 19, 2023 9:58:49 GMT
No I don't because its not the point. Most places have an all time high temperature from some distant past. An unusual set of circumstances in a localised area such as a high pressure held in place by the weather around it for a prolonged period. In 1913 one country in 1842 another. What we are seeing now is a global heatwave, every country is having an exceptionally hot summer. Not global, Zany. Seriously mate move on. Its global the heat will move round the earth as it goes round the sun. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 19, 2023 10:05:24 GMT
As I've said many times before, it doesn't matter how many scientists - or anyone else - say that "climate change" is predominantly caused by man-made CO2. Science is not decided by opinion polls. It's decided by having working equations or models that can predict what happens reasonably accurately. But the various bodies that make these claims don't have any such thing. In fact they seem more interested in doctoring the data to fit their models than altering their models to fit the facts. As I've pointed out on another thread they're now busy lowering the historic temperatures and raising recent temperatures by running the data filtering algorithms through their models - which is basically just fiddling the figures to make their models appear to work. If these bodies want sensible people to believe what they say this is not the right way to go about it. Only the gullible will believe what they say. Even if you were right and some figures were smoothed it does not change the overall trend or its cause. The only thing that would cause me to doubt those figures (and frankly my own eyes) would be if the majority of those figures were wrong. But all you have is a few weather stations and a glacier. Other than that just the endless, this spot was warmer 100 years ago, the planet was warmer in the Carboniferous age etc. I am yet to have any reasoned explanation as to why China is going along with the rest of the world on this ruse. That sentence makes no sense whatsoever and reveals a lot of ignorance. Science is based on facts - observed facts. The "rules", as you call them, are the "theories" that scientists dream up in order to explain the observed data. And if the theories have exceptions then they're wrong. You don't understand scientific method. As for "smoothing" you again don't understand what's going on. When scientific measurements are made there is always a degree of inaccuracy so you get a lot of data that's basically all over the place - especially when the data is taken over many decades and is measured using different methods. The PROBLEM is that the way that the IPCC decides to "smooth" the data is to use their model as input to the filtering algorithm in order to determine which measurements are "wrong". Which is ridiculous. Surely you can see that. They're selecting the data to fit their theory.  So older temperature data that is "too high" is either deleted or decertified and newer temperature data is manipulated to select the higher readings. As for a "reasoned explanation as to why China is going along with the rest of the world on this ruse" - They're NOT. Surely that's obvious. They're building more and more coal-fired power stations for a start. And they've never agreed to put any of the COP agreements into law, as we have stupidly done. And they've cleverly just said that they'll maybe make the targets about 10 years later than everybody else. You have to be very gullible to not see through this. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 19, 2023 10:15:24 GMT
We've been saved by the position of the gulf stream. If it was a little higher on the map we'd be sweltering too. Personally I'm very grateful as it's harvest time and I don't want to be shocking up wheat in the high 30Cs like last year. The one thing that is genuinely interesting about the "weather" - which is what it is - is that the Gulf Stream seems to have become much more likely to get "stuck" in a particular location. So what might be a few days of unusual heat (or cold) goes on for much longer and builds up. The genuine scientists are looking at this new phenomenon and have yet to determine why it is. Various theories are floating around - like maybe it's to do with changes in the polar ice caps or possible ocean currents. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 19, 2023 10:20:22 GMT
And as I answered, science is not based on facts its based on evidence, that evidence rarely has no exceptions to its rules. Even if you were right and some figures were smoothed it does not change the overall trend or its cause. The only thing that would cause me to doubt those figures (and frankly my own eyes) would be if the majority of those figures were wrong. But all you have is a few weather stations and a glacier. Other than that just the endless, this spot was warmer 100 years ago, the planet was warmer in the Carboniferous age etc. I am yet to have any reasoned explanation as to why China is going along with the rest of the world on this ruse. That sentence makes no sense whatsoever and reveals a lot of ignorance. Science is based on facts - observed facts. The "rules", as you call them, are the "theories" that scientists dream up in order to explain the observed data. And if the theories have exceptions then they're wrong. You don't understand scientific method. As for a "reasoned explanation as to why China is going along with the rest of the world on this ruse" - They're NOT. Surely that's obvious. They're building more and more coal-fired power stations for a start. And they've never agreed to put any of the COP agreements into law, as we have stupidly done. And they've cleverly just said that they'll maybe make the targets about 10 years later than everybody else. You have to be very gullible to not see through this. No, you are wrong, there are very few facts. Most things are beyond absolute proof and yet are accepted on evidence. All evidence tells us we are 92 million miles from the sun, but no one has been to it with a tape measure. The IPCC of course disagree with your interpretation of this. And the evidence is stacked in their direction, so with all due respect I believe them not you or the blogger who gave you the information. And still we have this strange phenomena of China going along with the IPCC and agreeing with the West. Something they're not generally known for. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jul 19, 2023 10:22:39 GMT
I meant jet stream not gulf stream.
The gulf stream is thought to be changing too, slowing down due to freshwater melt in the arctic.
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Post by zanygame on Jul 19, 2023 12:25:38 GMT
I meant jet stream not gulf stream. The gulf stream is thought to be changing too, slowing down due to freshwater melt in the arctic. I figured that's what you meant. And yes the gulf stream has moved away from the British coast taking the Cod with it. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 19, 2023 13:59:19 GMT
Anecdote my fragrant viking arse. The temperatures i quoted were those shown on the Apple weather app at 7:45 this morning. Are your fire charts live, online ? And as i said, the BBC Weather Man did an excellent job of explaining descending hot air from a displaced jetstream. The same displaced jetstream that git displaced in ‘87 and ‘81 and nany tims since. Tell Azrael, Michael, Gabriel and the fourth guy to bugger iff back home and the other four to get off their horses and drink their milk, there’s a good fellow. Yes. And what displaces the jet stream and what is the temperature of the air it displaces and how often is it happening now and in how many areas at the same time. I don't doubt the accuracy of your reading (Though Sandy and the bloggers might) My point about the anecdotal was that you took the reading in one place only. Malta. It is not doubting readings it is accepting them for what they are with all the limitations of the measuring equipment (especially past readings) and what factors may artificially force them upwards. It is strange when you say records are being broken all over the place yet there are very few you can actually put your finger on. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 19, 2023 14:03:40 GMT
As I've said many times before, it doesn't matter how many scientists - or anyone else - say that "climate change" is predominantly caused by man-made CO2. Science is not decided by opinion polls. It's decided by having working equations or models that can predict what happens reasonably accurately. But the various bodies that make these claims don't have any such thing. In fact they seem more interested in doctoring the data to fit their models than altering their models to fit the facts. As I've pointed out on another thread they're now busy lowering the historic temperatures and raising recent temperatures by running the data filtering algorithms through their models - which is basically just fiddling the figures to make their models appear to work. If these bodies want sensible people to believe what they say this is not the right way to go about it. Only the gullible will believe what they say. And as I answered, science is not based on facts its based on evidence, that evidence rarely has no exceptions to its rules. Even if you were right and some figures were smoothed it does not change the overall trend or its cause. The only thing that would cause me to doubt those figures (and frankly my own eyes) would be if the majority of those figures were wrong. But all you have is a few weather stations and a glacier. Other than that just the endless, this spot was warmer 100 years ago, the planet was warmer in the Carboniferous age etc. I am yet to have any reasoned explanation as to why China is going along with the rest of the world on this ruse. Are they, every country? Consider the question I poses as regards China. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 19, 2023 17:44:09 GMT
Yes. And what displaces the jet stream and what is the temperature of the air it displaces and how often is it happening now and in how many areas at the same time. I don't doubt the accuracy of your reading (Though Sandy and the bloggers might) My point about the anecdotal was that you took the reading in one place only. Malta. It is not doubting readings it is accepting them for what they are with all the limitations of the measuring equipment (especially past readings) and what factors may artificially force them upwards. It is strange when you say records are being broken all over the place yet there are very few you can actually put your finger on. Switch on the news. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 19, 2023 17:46:19 GMT
And as I answered, science is not based on facts its based on evidence, that evidence rarely has no exceptions to its rules. Even if you were right and some figures were smoothed it does not change the overall trend or its cause. The only thing that would cause me to doubt those figures (and frankly my own eyes) would be if the majority of those figures were wrong. But all you have is a few weather stations and a glacier. Other than that just the endless, this spot was warmer 100 years ago, the planet was warmer in the Carboniferous age etc. I am yet to have any reasoned explanation as to why China is going along with the rest of the world on this ruse. Are they, every country? Consider the question I poses as regards China. I might if I could understand your post. |
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Post by bancroft on Jul 19, 2023 19:18:30 GMT
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Post by sandypine on Jul 19, 2023 19:25:48 GMT
It is not doubting readings it is accepting them for what they are with all the limitations of the measuring equipment (especially past readings) and what factors may artificially force them upwards. It is strange when you say records are being broken all over the place yet there are very few you can actually put your finger on. Switch on the news. It has been on and the record temperatures have not been reached, apart from a few local areas which have achieved local highs such as Verdun in the Pyrenees but in that respect I can quote your own belief that local conditions do not a record make. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 19, 2023 19:27:22 GMT
Are they, every country? Consider the question I poses as regards China. I might if I could understand your post. I'll repeat. Do you think it is in China's interests to have the West in general trying to lessen their production and use of oil and coal? |
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So older temperature data that is "too high" is either deleted or decertified and newer temperature data is manipulated to select the higher readings.