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Post by Vinny on Jul 18, 2023 18:34:44 GMT
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Post by Vinny on Jul 18, 2023 18:36:19 GMT
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 18:41:45 GMT
Again Vinny, your sources are a little long in the tooth.
Are any of these African job centres still going, and how many if any Africans did they place in European employment?
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 19, 2023 6:54:52 GMT
Oh dear. The problem we have is people like you, dappy: 1. The new migrant bill (which has gone through the Lords) says that they're no longer eligible to claim asylum. 2. I know. But it would be easy to reverse if Sunak/Starmer decided to declare dynamic alignment with EU regulations. 3. Not under international law but the EU rules say that they have to. 4. I was referring to Italy - but never mind. 5. No they don't. 6. Yes you did. 7. They are accepting hundreds of millions of pounds from the UK to stop the boats. That's a duty. 8. The international law dates back to the last century and can be overridden by UK law. 1. As of now anyone claiming asylum is here legally. We will see how the new bill survives contact with the courts. 2. Sunak/Starmer cannot put as back into the EU without a vote in parliament and without the EU agreeing. 3. I assume you are referring to Dublin2 - I suggest you go and reread what they say. They are not applicable to us anyway 4. You mentioned Greece 5. I hate to get all pantomime but oh yes they do 6. Dont think I did. Show me the quote 7. Only in your convoluted world. 8. lots of laws date back to the 20C and many before that. it doesn't stop them being the law. International law is incorporated into UK law. The new bill conflicts with that law. 1. By international law possibly - but we have declared them illegal now. 2. If the UK agree to dynamic alignment with EU rules/regulations then to all intents and purposes we're subjugated to the EU again and the ECJ - but without any voting rights. It's pretty obvious that Starmer would do this - and probably Sunak to if he won the next GE. 3. I have read it and it requires member the likes of Italy and Greece to register people arriving there. 4. It's irrelevant because they can easily get to France from Greece anyway. There was even an R4 program on this. 5. More people are granted asylum by the UK than France. 6. If they haven't claimed asylum then they should be registered 7. The French have a duty to either stop the illegals coming to the UK or to accept them back when we return them. That's their duty. 8. International law is NOT "incorporated into UK law". And we can override international law - as we have done now. |
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Post by dappy on Jul 19, 2023 8:25:11 GMT
1. As of now anyone claiming asylum is here legally. We will see how the new bill survives contact with the courts. 2. Sunak/Starmer cannot put as back into the EU without a vote in parliament and without the EU agreeing. 3. I assume you are referring to Dublin2 - I suggest you go and reread what they say. They are not applicable to us anyway 4. You mentioned Greece 5. I hate to get all pantomime but oh yes they do 6. Dont think I did. Show me the quote 7. Only in your convoluted world. 8. lots of laws date back to the 20C and many before that. it doesn't stop them being the law. International law is incorporated into UK law. The new bill conflicts with that law. 1. By international law possibly - but we have declared them illegal now. 2. If the UK agree to dynamic alignment with EU rules/regulations then to all intents and purposes we're subjugated to the EU again and the ECJ - but without any voting rights. It's pretty obvious that Starmer would do this - and probably Sunak to if he won the next GE. 3. I have read it and it requires member the likes of Italy and Greece to register people arriving there. 4. It's irrelevant because they can easily get to France from Greece anyway. There was even an R4 program on this. 5. More people are granted asylum by the UK than France. 6. If they haven't claimed asylum then they should be registered 7. The French have a duty to either stop the illegals coming to the UK or to accept them back when we return them. That's their duty. 8. International law is NOT "incorporated into UK law". And we can override international law - as we have done now. The remarkable thing about this forum is that when people have been demonstrably shown to be wrong, they keep digging and making themselves look even sillier. 1. The new law will receive royal assent shortly (unless it happened yesterday?). It doesn't do what you say and wasn't in place when you made your claim. You were wrong. 2. Whatever your imagined supposition about the future, we are not in the EU now. Your claim was wrong. 3. Dublin 2 does not impose an obligation on asylum seekers to claim asylum in the first country they reach. Even if it did, it wouldnt apply to us because - guess what - we are not in the EU. You were wrong. 4. You now regard your false claim that Schengen facilitated travel from Greece to france as "irrelevant". Lol. Your claim was wrong. 5. You claimed that more people CLAIMED asylum in the UK than France. That was wrong. You now claim that more people were granted asylum in the UK than France. That's wrong too. 6. You claimed that i suggested that people living in camps in Calais were "refugees". That was a lie. 7. You have invented an obligation on France purely from your imagination. That claim was wrong. 8. Back to our pantomime again. Oh yes it is.... Another wrong claim. Put the shovel down now mate, |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 19, 2023 8:59:27 GMT
Again Vinny, your sources are a little long in the tooth. Are any of these African job centres still going, and how many if any Africans did they place in European employment? Come on Vinny, you've had enough googling time to establish that (a) no EU 'job centres' were opened in Africa and (b) no African obtained employment in the EU through such non-existent job centres.
You may have stumbled across the Centre d'information et Gestion des Migrations based in Bamako, Mali, which was created in 2008 through an agreement between the European Union and the Government of Mali. Its main objectives were "the definition and implementation of a Malian migration policy adapted to national, regional and international dynamics, with particular emphasis on the link between migration and development."
A talking shop then, not a job centre. It doesn't seem to exist anymore having been abandoned by the EU some time around 2015.
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Post by dappy on Jul 19, 2023 9:21:21 GMT
As well as the remarkable desire noted above to keep on digging when demonstrably shown to be wrong, the other great mystery of this forum is why people don't read the links which so often say the opposite to the point they are making.
In this case Vinny's own link says "the EU is stressing that no specific job vacancies will be on offer." ho hum.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 19, 2023 10:23:31 GMT
Ahh, I see Vin beat me to it. You would have thought Dan & Dappy had access to google, hey ho. In addition to Vins links... ... EU OPENS JOB CENTRES IN AFRICA - ' The European Union is to open job centres in West Africa to advertise vacancies for people looking to work in Europe...A pilot office will open in Mali this year, and others are planned for Senegal and Mauritania. The scheme, which will cost £25m this year, will be paid from European Union and member states’ budgets'.
www.recruiter.co.uk/news/2012/08/eu-opens-job-centres-africaObviously Dan and Dappy will be perfectly aware there are many similar links available, they will have googled "EU open job centres in Africa", perhaps they were hoping no else would? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 19, 2023 10:41:54 GMT
Red - your link, ostensibly from 2012, reports on events that took place in 2008. As noted previously, just one such 'job centre' actually opened, in Bamako, Mali. Unfortunately between announcement in 2006 and opening in 2008 a change of direction occured and rather than providing access to jobs in the EU the 'Centre d'information et Gestion des Migrations' focused instead on providing 'advice'. The negative feedback from EU member states which jealously guard their prerogative to manage immigration themselves led the Commission to retreat and drop the 'job centre' idea like the hot potato it was. No other 'job centres' were ever opened anywhere in Africa and the one in Mali is no longer functional. I'm mystified why you continue to re-present the same old chestnuts which have been comprehensively debunked on several occasions already. At least you seem to have abandoned the Frau Merkel angle thankfully.
PS if you google 'EU opens job centres in Africa' as you suggest you will not turn up any links after 2008, fifteen years ago. Here, have a go:
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Post by dappy on Jul 19, 2023 10:53:38 GMT
Who opened job centres in Africa? Nobody did. Had the EU done so, it may have resulted in an increase in legal migration. Its hard to see how it could be blamed for "illegal" migration. Do explain Who publicly welcomed African migrants and announced to the world 'Wir shaffen das' (We can manage)Syria is in Asia actually. but the answer to your question is the leader of Germany. Brussels and the EU is in Belgium. The two things are not the same. Even if they were, you could blame Merkels statement for increased migration at the time. Its hard to see how it could be blamed for "illegal" migration now. Do explain Who is now planning to hand €1 billion to a tin pot African dictator in an attempt to stop the flood of African migrants.
I have no idea. Could you explain what you are referring too. I thought you wanted to stop the "flood" of African migrants. I note that dear old Red has failed to answer the questions I asked him relating to his ridiculous post. Here they are again for his convenience. For an ex-soldier he doesnt half seem to run away a lot..... |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 19, 2023 10:56:30 GMT
Red - your link, ostensibly from 2012, reports on events that took place in 2008. As noted previously, just one such 'job centre' actually opened, in Bamako, Mali. Unfortunately between announcement in 2006 and opening in 2008 a change of direction occured and rather than providing access to jobs in the EU the 'Centre d'information et Gestion des Migrations' focused instead on providing 'advice'. The negative feedback from EU member states which jealously guard their prerogative to manage immigration themselves led the Commission to retreat and drop the 'job centre' idea like the hot potato it was. No other 'job centres' were ever opened anywhere in Africa and the one in Mali is no longer functional. I'm mystified why you continue to re-present the same old chestnuts which have been comprehensively debunked on several occasions already. At least you seem to have abandoned the Frau Merkel angle thankfully.
PS if you google 'EU opens job centres in Africa' as you suggest you will not turn up any links after 2008, fifteen years ago. Here, have a go:
Dan, the question was ' did the EU open job centres in Africa', and quite clearly they did. When the EU opened job centres in Africa is not the question. However, I understand why you are attempting to move the goalposts. Second EU job center in Africa... foreignersinuk.co.uk/news/europe-a-world-news/second-eu-job-center-in-africa/A quick glance at google may save your blushes further. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 19, 2023 10:59:40 GMT
You do appreciate the difference between 'a second job centre has been opened' and 'a second job centre is to be opened', don't you Red?
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 19, 2023 11:02:57 GMT
Red is so anxious to finger the EU with the blame for the UK's immigration debacle that he feels compelled to bring up these hoary old canards time after time, even though they've been soundly debunked each time he's tries to so.
What was it Einstein said about repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? He could have had Red in mind.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 19, 2023 11:09:50 GMT
The evidence has been posted that clearly shows the EU opened job centres in Africa.
From the last link I posted...
...Matthew Elliott, of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: “As people all over Britain and Europe face redundancy and unemployment as the recession bites, it is ludicrous that the EU is frittering away taxpayers’ money on such inappropriate schemes.”
The project is part of EU Commissioner Louis Michel’s master plan for the “mobility” of workers between African states and Europe. The initiative has the support of European leaders who believe that opening up labour markers in Britain and other member states will help to stem the growing tide of illegal immigration from Africa.
However, if you say it's all fake news fair enough, I'm bored with it.
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Post by dappy on Jul 19, 2023 11:16:34 GMT
An information centre was opened in Bamako in 2008. The intention at the time was to eventually advertise jobs in Europe (at the time Spain and Portugal operated a scheme where they brought in seasonal workers from Africa) but this was never put into place in the Bamako centre which remained an information centre only. If that qualifies as a job centre in your eyes, call it a job centre, but I think most people would require a building to offer jobs before qualifying for that title.
you still havent answered the questions I asked you. cluck cluck cluck.
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