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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 14, 2023 7:34:26 GMT
Why is it that France can get away with refusing to house "asylum seekers" yet our govt gets attacked for putting them in hotels that aren't good enough? Why don't we just refuse to house them?
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Post by Hutchyns on Jul 14, 2023 8:49:43 GMT
Is it because the French public are seriously threatening to put Marine Le Pen into power when they next get the chance, thereby frightening the present French Government into taking some tough action. Whereas the British public is indicating it intends to put Keir Starmer and Labour into power, who will be even more immigration friendly than Rishi's jelly spined administration ?
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Post by wapentake on Jul 14, 2023 8:53:02 GMT
We live in a country where kids have been housed in touring caravans and narrow boats,where a kid with well known suicide issues was put in a flat high up.
We have homeless people who are given a tent to live in,where in certain areas they’re not welcome so local police are ordered to target them and businesses told not to serve them.
We have places where elderly are supposedly cared for but are instead sometimes subject to violence and humiliation caught on camera but the cps says it doesn’t reach the threshold for prosecution.
We have privately run mental health units where young people are held indefinitely for no good reason than financial imperative and are used and abused in to the bargain.
We should be helping genuine refugees only not economic migrants and be campaigning for a change in international law that was framed in a different time and world.
Lastly we should cooperate with other countries to target people smugglers seize their assets and jail them indefinitely.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 11:56:45 GMT
We live in a country where kids have been housed in touring caravans and narrow boats,where a kid with well known suicide issues was put in a flat high up. We have homeless people who are given a tent to live in,where in certain areas they’re not welcome so local police are ordered to target them and businesses told not to serve them. We have places where elderly are supposedly cared for but are instead sometimes subject to violence and humiliation caught on camera but the cps says it doesn’t reach the threshold for prosecution. We have privately run mental health units where young people are held indefinitely for no good reason than financial imperative and are used and abused in to the bargain. We should be helping genuine refugees only not economic migrants and be campaigning for a change in international law that was framed in a different time and world. Lastly we should cooperate with other countries to target people smugglers seize their assets and jail them indefinitely. All good points. All true and show up the disparities between how we treat our own, compared to some immigrants. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 14, 2023 12:11:27 GMT
Is it because the French public are seriously threatening to put Marine Le Pen into power when they next get the chance, thereby frightening the present French Government into taking some tough action. Whereas the British public is indicating it intends to put Keir Starmer and Labour into power, who will be even more immigration friendly than Rishi's jelly spined administration ? Yes, that's probably a reasonable explanation. France is a more "right wing" country than Britain. We seem to be becoming more "left wing" - at least our "Establishment", who wields most power, is. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 14, 2023 13:49:00 GMT
The uk is also becoming more 'right wing'. Our establishment was more adept at boxing in the public's choices. However, by the next election things may have deteriorated so much that even this isn't enough.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 15, 2023 6:26:26 GMT
The uk is also becoming more 'right wing'. Our establishment was more adept at boxing in the public's choices. However, by the next election things may have deteriorated so much that even this isn't enough. I see you're not a fan of democracy, orac. The job of the government is to implement the policies that they have been elected on - not the policies that they want. And if the judiciary wants to overrule the govt the govt must make laws to overrule the judiciary. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 15, 2023 11:56:35 GMT
The uk is also becoming more 'right wing'. Our establishment was more adept at boxing in the public's choices. However, by the next election things may have deteriorated so much that even this isn't enough. I see you're not a fan of democracy, orac. The job of the government is to implement the policies that they have been elected on - not the policies that they want. And if the judiciary wants to overrule the govt the govt must make laws to overrule the judiciary. In a representative democracy like that of the UK, the job of the government is to represent the electorate and to do what they (the government) thinks is best for the country and electorate. A pre-election manifesto sets out some (or a series of) a party's beliefs of what they would like to achieve if elected.
What you're proposing is a delegate-based government that gets instructions from the electorate...
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 15, 2023 14:10:30 GMT
This is an ariel view of the so called 'jungle' immigrant camp in Calais. As you can see it's a mixture of container and tented accommodation. The French government say this is perfectly adequate and neither the EU or the UN seem to object.  Yet as soon as illegals land on an English beach outraged lefties demand the government not only accommodate them in three, four and five star hotels but give them pocket money and free mobile phones. If we provided very basic accommodation and less of a welcome as the French do, the pull factor would be reduced dramatically. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 15, 2023 14:13:14 GMT
The uk is also becoming more 'right wing'. Our establishment was more adept at boxing in the public's choices. However, by the next election things may have deteriorated so much that even this isn't enough. The electorate may be moving to the right, but that's the fault of this centrist dare I say left of centre Tory government. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 16, 2023 6:24:30 GMT
Is it because the French public are seriously threatening to put Marine Le Pen into power when they next get the chance, thereby frightening the present French Government into taking some tough action. Whereas the British public is indicating it intends to put Keir Starmer and Labour into power, who will be even more immigration friendly than Rishi's jelly spined administration ? The reality there - having worked in the country for a short while when her dad was the main man in the party, and an election was on the cards, and thus having seen first hand how their voting system works, is that the recent rise of Marine Le Pen is seen by Macron as a very good thing indeed. so many vote for her in the first round, it eliminates the far mire dangerous (to his continued rule) nutters, and then he steps in and waves the ‘for fuck’s sake don’t let the nazi get elected’ card and presto another term is secured. She’ll never get in and she knows it. If only Macro’s other opposition could mobilise itself properly The year that Proportional Representation allowed Andrew Brons and Nick Griffin into Brussels because so many were fed up with the EU and Labour less than 17% bothered to vote, Phil Woolas the then Immigration Minister under the Blair/Brown revolving doir at Number Ten declared it was time to force immigrants to declare themselves asylum seekers in the first EU country they arrived in. Woolas of course committed an election offence in tbe next election so serious the Electoral Commission reported him to the police and he was barred from ever standing for elected office ever again. But i’m not sure what he actually DID. Probably wanted Labour to control immigration, or pretended to so hard the front bench thought he was being serious. I do remember after his outburst the Gendarmerie raided a Calais camp, took hundreds into custody - and watched a British firm of left leaning lawyers get every one of them off when brought to court. Whereupon every last one of those arrested vanished into thin air. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 16, 2023 13:04:06 GMT
I see you're not a fan of democracy, orac. The job of the government is to implement the policies that they have been elected on - not the policies that they want. And if the judiciary wants to overrule the govt the govt must make laws to overrule the judiciary. In a representative democracy like that of the UK, the job of the government is to represent the electorate and to do what they (the government) thinks is best for the country and electorate. A pre-election manifesto sets out some (or a series of) a party's beliefs of what they would like to achieve if elected.
What you're proposing is a delegate-based government that gets instructions from the electorate...
That's contradictory. It is NOT for the govt do "what it thinks is best for the country". It is to "represent the electorate". And if the electorate want to control migration then that's what it should do. They plainly have not done this - in fact they've increased immigration massively - so their reward will be to be booted out. And if the people have any sense they will realise that Labour (and the Lib Dims) are even worse, so they'll vote for none of them and elect the Reform party. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 16, 2023 13:53:28 GMT
In a representative democracy like that of the UK, the job of the government is to represent the electorate and to do what they (the government) thinks is best for the country and electorate. A pre-election manifesto sets out some (or a series of) a party's beliefs of what they would like to achieve if elected.
What you're proposing is a delegate-based government that gets instructions from the electorate...
That's contradictory. It is NOT for the govt do "what it thinks is best for the country". It is to "represent the electorate". And if the electorate want to control migration then that's what it should do. They plainly have not done this - in fact they've increased immigration massively - so their reward will be to be booted out. And if the people have any sense they will realise that Labour (and the Lib Dims) are even worse, so they'll vote for none of them and elect the Reform party. All of that does not alter the fact that in UK general elections, the people choose representatives — they do not choose delegates. That's mostly been left to organisations like trade unions where, in the past, democracy has sometimes been lacking.
As Reform hasn't made much of an impact so far, it will need to go some to affect the outcome of the next election — despite the support of Ann Widdecombe.
It'll be interesting to see how Reform and Reclaim do in the upcoming by-elections...
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Post by Montegriffo on Jul 16, 2023 14:02:17 GMT
This is an ariel view of the so called 'jungle' immigrant camp in Calais. As you can see it's a mixture of container and tented accommodation. The French government say this is perfectly adequate and neither the EU or the UN seem to object. Yet as soon as illegals land on an English beach outraged lefties demand the government not only accommodate them in three, four and five star hotels but give them pocket money and free mobile phones. If we provided very basic accommodation and less of a welcome as the French do, the pull factor would be reduced dramatically. I don't think it would. The pull factor is usually a family member already here or the fact they can speak the language. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 17, 2023 7:10:35 GMT
I see you're not a fan of democracy, orac. The job of the government is to implement the policies that they have been elected on - not the policies that they want. And if the judiciary wants to overrule the govt the govt must make laws to overrule the judiciary. In a representative democracy like that of the UK, the job of the government is to represent the electorate and to do what they (the government) thinks is best for the country and electorate. A pre-election manifesto sets out some (or a series of) a party's beliefs of what they would like to achieve if elected.
What you're proposing is a delegate-based government that gets instructions from the electorate...
in a democratic world where the electorate have power to elect different people with different policies, the elected government rightly fear replacement We live in a country where there is barely room to slide a cigarette paper between the two winners and sixty per cent of us now, and up to eighty per cent in the past, live in a constituency where a candidate whose policies we hate has the support of such overwhelming numbers of people whose politics we hate that our voice at the polls is silenced. What amazes me is the electorate in 550 odd seats are so stupid they allow this instead of getting power the irish way. |
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