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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 7:52:10 GMT
Unfortunately Red your animus towards the EU renders you incapable of rational thought on the topic. Your pronouncement that "The entire European migration crisis was created, designed and promoted from within the inner sanctum of Brussels, " is so nuts that it precludes any sensible discussion.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 8:22:32 GMT
I meant to note in my earlier post on asylum accommodation in France that in the event that the authorities can't offer immediate residence in a government hostel the claimant is entitled to an extra payment with their monthly allowance. It's not much, about €8 per day as I recall, but probably enough to buy a one-man tent.
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Post by dappy on Jul 18, 2023 11:23:04 GMT
If this discussion is about the camps in Calais and the (usually very basic) accommodation an asylum seeker receives in the UK, the very obvious answer to the "obvious" if silly question is The people in Calais have not claimed asylum in france and hence are not legally asylum seekers.Once they have claimed asylum in the UK, they are asylum seekers and hence are entitled to basic accommodation while their claim is being processed. People who have claimed asylum in France are accommodated by the French state in as far as I know similar quality accommodation. The question that should be asked is why have our government mismanaged our system so badly that decision rates are infinitely slower than in France and hence people remain in Government accommodation for far too long, which results in that accommodation becoming full which requires Government to find further accommodation (and costs large sums of money). The people in Calais who re trying to get to England are "illegal immigrants", dappy. I know you have difficulty with the term but that's what they are. According to EU rules these people who arrive in the EU (usually Italy of Greece) are required to register in the first country that they arrive in. The problem is that most of them do NOT do this and they're just given a train ticket to France to get rid of them. That's because the Schengen agreement means that they can travel all through Europe without showing any papers - so the Europe's "security" is dependent on Italy and Greece, neither of which country have much interest in controlling the illegal traffic because they know that the vast majority of them want to live in 2 or 3 countries - Germany, Sweden and England. Some apply for asylum in France (most don't) but when they are rejected they are then illegal migrants. So virtually ALL of these people living in the camps are illegal migrants NOT "refugees" as you naively suggest. It is the duty of the French govt to treat them as such and not facilitate their onward journey to England, yet this is exactly what the French do. When they arrive here they claim asylum. But since they're from a safe country (France) we should deny them ALL asylum - that's shortly to become law in the UK. Having denied them asylum they should be returned to France (or any other country that will accept them) and they should be detained in secure accommodation - or they disappear into the black economy. It's true that our govt takes too long to process them but it's VERY difficult to process people who have, in almost every case, thrown away their identification. The point is that we should NOT be processing them. They should be ejected. But we have problems in doing that because our Leftie Establishment and judiciary do everything they can to stop us getting rid of them. Blimey - how many different falsehoods can you cram into one post..... Once people have arrived in UK and claimed asylum they are here legally. We are not in the EU There is no obligation on anyone wishing to claim asylum to do so in the first safe country There is no Schengen route from Greece to France More people claim asylum in France than UK I have never suggested that people living in camps in Calais are refugees - none of them are. They only become refugees when an asylum claim is accepted The french have no duty towards the UK The UK "law" will be overturned in the courts as it is against international law and hence domestic law. It is merely for the gullible and tabloids We can't "return" people to France You have expressed a few opinions and you are perfectly free to hold them. But facts are facts. You are not free to change reality. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 18, 2023 12:37:50 GMT
The people in Calais who re trying to get to England are "illegal immigrants", dappy. I know you have difficulty with the term but that's what they are. According to EU rules these people who arrive in the EU (usually Italy of Greece) are required to register in the first country that they arrive in. The problem is that most of them do NOT do this and they're just given a train ticket to France to get rid of them. That's because the Schengen agreement means that they can travel all through Europe without showing any papers - so the Europe's "security" is dependent on Italy and Greece, neither of which country have much interest in controlling the illegal traffic because they know that the vast majority of them want to live in 2 or 3 countries - Germany, Sweden and England. Some apply for asylum in France (most don't) but when they are rejected they are then illegal migrants. So virtually ALL of these people living in the camps are illegal migrants NOT "refugees" as you naively suggest. It is the duty of the French govt to treat them as such and not facilitate their onward journey to England, yet this is exactly what the French do. When they arrive here they claim asylum. But since they're from a safe country (France) we should deny them ALL asylum - that's shortly to become law in the UK. Having denied them asylum they should be returned to France (or any other country that will accept them) and they should be detained in secure accommodation - or they disappear into the black economy. It's true that our govt takes too long to process them but it's VERY difficult to process people who have, in almost every case, thrown away their identification. The point is that we should NOT be processing them. They should be ejected. But we have problems in doing that because our Leftie Establishment and judiciary do everything they can to stop us getting rid of them. Blimey - how many different falsehoods can you cram into one post..... 1. Once people have arrived in UK and claimed asylum they are here legally. 2. We are not in the EU 3. There is no obligation on anyone wishing to claim asylum to do so in the first safe country 4, There is no Schengen route from Greece to France 5. More people claim asylum in France than UK 6. I have never suggested that people living in camps in Calais are refugees - none of them are. They only become refugees when an asylum claim is accepted 7. The french have no duty towards the UK 8. The UK "law" will be overturned in the courts as it is against international law and hence domestic law. It is merely for the gullible and tabloids We can't "return" people to France You have expressed a few opinions and you are perfectly free to hold them. But facts are facts. You are not free to change reality. Oh dear. The problem we have is people like you, dappy: 1. The new migrant bill (which has gone through the Lords) says that they're no longer eligible to claim asylum. 2. I know. But it would be easy to reverse if Sunak/Starmer decided to declare dynamic alignment with EU regulations. 3. Not under international law but the EU rules say that they have to. 4. I was referring to Italy - but never mind. 5. No they don't. 6. Yes you did. 7. They are accepting hundreds of millions of pounds from the UK to stop the boats. That's a duty. 8. The international law dates back to the last century and can be overridden by UK law. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 12:55:07 GMT
"4. There is no Schengen route from Greece to France."
Untrue. Once in Greece you are in the Schengen Area and can board a flight to France without difficulty.
This is why some commentators (myself included) proposed at the height of the crisis that the Greek islands offshore from Turkey be removed from the Zone.
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Post by dappy on Jul 18, 2023 13:13:17 GMT
Blimey - how many different falsehoods can you cram into one post..... 1. Once people have arrived in UK and claimed asylum they are here legally. 2. We are not in the EU 3. There is no obligation on anyone wishing to claim asylum to do so in the first safe country 4, There is no Schengen route from Greece to France 5. More people claim asylum in France than UK 6. I have never suggested that people living in camps in Calais are refugees - none of them are. They only become refugees when an asylum claim is accepted 7. The french have no duty towards the UK 8. The UK "law" will be overturned in the courts as it is against international law and hence domestic law. It is merely for the gullible and tabloids We can't "return" people to France You have expressed a few opinions and you are perfectly free to hold them. But facts are facts. You are not free to change reality. Oh dear. The problem we have is people like you, dappy: 1. The new migrant bill (which has gone through the Lords) says that they're no longer eligible to claim asylum. 2. I know. But it would be easy to reverse if Sunak/Starmer decided to declare dynamic alignment with EU regulations. 3. Not under international law but the EU rules say that they have to. 4. I was referring to Italy - but never mind. 5. No they don't. 6. Yes you did. 7. They are accepting hundreds of millions of pounds from the UK to stop the boats. That's a duty. 8. The international law dates back to the last century and can be overridden by UK law. 1. As of now anyone claiming asylum is here legally. We will see how the new bill survives contact with the courts. 2. Sunak/Starmer cannot put as back into the EU without a vote in parliament and without the EU agreeing. 3. I assume you are referring to Dublin2 - I suggest you go and reread what they say. They are not applicable to us anyway 4. You mentioned Greece 5. I hate to get all pantomime but oh yes they do 6. Dont think I did. Show me the quote 7. Only in your convoluted world. 8. lots of laws date back to the 20C and many before that. it doesn't stop them being the law. International law is incorporated into UK law. The new bill conflicts with that law. Dan, are you really suggesting that people who have entered Greece by irregular means with a view to ultimately claiming asylum can jump on a flight from Athens to Paris? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 13:20:36 GMT
I don't know about 'jumping on' but all they will need in the way of documentation (if even asked) on the way out is an EU national identity card. These are notoriously easy to forge and I imagine can be picked up in the back streets of Athens for not much more than €100. I've seen them advertised online - along with UK driving licenses with your photo included - so such things are extremely easy and simple to get hold of.
Once in Paris nobody is likely to scrutinise your docs either.
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Post by dappy on Jul 18, 2023 13:33:34 GMT
So we agree there is no way of someone using Schengen to travel between Athens and Paris without needing travel documents (whether identity card or passport)
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Post by Orac on Jul 18, 2023 13:46:26 GMT
So we agree there is no way of someone using Schengen to travel between Athens and Paris without needing travel documents (whether identity card or passport) It really looked to me that he was saying the precise opposite to that - that flying from Greece to France without documentation would be quite easy |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 18, 2023 13:58:15 GMT
Unfortunately Red your animus towards the EU renders you incapable of rational thought on the topic. Your pronouncement that "The entire European migration crisis was created, designed and promoted from within the inner sanctum of Brussels, " is so nuts that it precludes any sensible discussion. Who opened job centres in Africa? Who publicly welcomed African migrants and announced to the world 'Wir shaffen das' (We can manage) Who is now planning to hand €1 billion to a tin pot African dictator in an attempt to stop the flood of African migrants. The utterly incompetent EU are 100% to blame for the European migration crisis. For Christ sake Merkel actually had the nerve to apologise for it before quietly retiring into an immigrant free tax payer funded pampered life of luxury. |
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Post by dappy on Jul 18, 2023 14:07:16 GMT
Who opened job centres in Africa?
Nobody did.
Had the EU done so, it may have resulted in an increase in legal migration. Its hard to see how it could be blamed for "illegal" migration. Do explain
Who publicly welcomed African migrants and announced to the world 'Wir shaffen das' (We can manage)
Syria is in Asia actually. but the answer to your question is the leader of Germany. Brussels and the EU is in Belgium. The two things are not the same. Even if they were, you could blame Merkels statement for increased migration at the time. Its hard to see how it could be blamed for "illegal" migration now. Do explain
Who is now planning to hand €1 billion to a tin pot African dictator in an attempt to stop the flood of African migrants.
I have no idea. Could you explain what you are referring too. I thought you wanted to stop the "flood" of African migrants.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 14:37:44 GMT
Dappy beat me to it. Puts on popcorn.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 14:45:37 GMT
So we agree there is no way of someone using Schengen to travel between Athens and Paris without needing travel documents (whether identity card or passport) I've experienced both needing a travel document and not needing one on an intra-Schengen journey. It seems to largely depend on how much interest the officials take in you.
I would say that for an Arab-looking traveler it would probably be wise to invest €100 in a fake Italian ID card rather than risk trying without it.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 18, 2023 17:00:24 GMT
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 18, 2023 17:27:42 GMT
Your link is from 2006. So where are they? They've had 17 years to build them and put them into operation. There must be pics of at least one.
This is the same rhubarb that Red usually posts when challenged about his daffy claims, although he usually embellishes the yarn by blaming Angela Merkel.
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