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Post by Handyman on Jul 10, 2023 20:38:44 GMT
NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg made the announcement in a joint statement with Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Swedish Ulf Kristersson.
Erdogan said he would urge Turkish MPs to ratify Sweden's application to join the 31-member mutual defense club 'as soon as possible'.
Biden reacted to the news by indicating that a deal had been done on F-16 fighter jets for Turkey.
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Post by Ripley on Jul 10, 2023 21:10:14 GMT
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Post by Handyman on Jul 11, 2023 12:12:51 GMT
They all barter at times like these , you want me to agree to something, Ok but we would like this in exchange
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Post by Ripley on Jul 11, 2023 14:06:06 GMT
They all barter at times like these , you want me to agree to something, Ok but we would like this in exchange Except it's not exactly an exchange he is seeking. He isn't asking Sweden for F-16's in exchange for not vetoing Sweden's application for membership of NATO, is he? He is getting the F-16s from the US. And he wants EU membership, another thing Sweden can't grant. |
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Post by Handyman on Jul 11, 2023 14:43:35 GMT
They all barter at times like these , you want me to agree to something, Ok but we would like this in exchange Except it's not exactly an exchange he is seeking. He isn't asking Sweden for F-16's in exchange for not vetoing Sweden's application for membership of NATO, is he? He is getting the F-16s from the US. And he wants EU membership, another thing Sweden can't grant. I know what he he is asking for and why but as they say ,One hand washes the other |
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Post by Ripley on Jul 11, 2023 14:50:16 GMT
Except it's not exactly an exchange he is seeking. He isn't asking Sweden for F-16's in exchange for not vetoing Sweden's application for membership of NATO, is he? He is getting the F-16s from the US. And he wants EU membership, another thing Sweden can't grant. I know what he he is asking for and why but as they say ,One hand washes the other Indeed. What do you think Erdogan will ask for when it's Ukraine's turn to be considered for NATO membership? And how would Ukraine's membership benefit anyone but Ukraine? |
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Post by Handyman on Jul 11, 2023 15:06:11 GMT
The Ukrainians were asked a few years ago if they wanted to join NATO, but the people voted against it, perhaps if they had voted yes Putin may have thought twice about invading the Ukraine, if the Ukrainians win I don't know if they hold a vote on it again, I think they will be to busy rebuilding, but if they did vote yes Erdogan may well block their application and ask for something in return, such as EU Membership
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Post by Ripley on Jul 11, 2023 19:06:03 GMT
The Ukrainians were asked a few years ago if they wanted to join NATO, but the people voted against it, perhaps if they had voted yes Putin may have thought twice about invading the Ukraine, if the Ukrainians win I don't know if they hold a vote on it again, I think they will be to busy rebuilding, but if they did vote yes Erdogan may well block their application and ask for something in return, such as EU Membership I think you can safely bet on that. But what would motivate the EU, most of whom are NATO members, too, to admit Turkey in return for not vetoing Ukraine's NATO membership? Is it not, in a way, beneficial to the rest of NATO not to admit Ukraine, when any skirmishes with Russia could drag all NATO members into a conflict? |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 11, 2023 20:27:19 GMT
The Ukrainians were asked a few years ago if they wanted to join NATO, but the people voted against it, perhaps if they had voted yes Putin may have thought twice about invading the Ukraine, if the Ukrainians win I don't know if they hold a vote on it again, I think they will be to busy rebuilding, but if they did vote yes Erdogan may well block their application and ask for something in return, such as EU Membership I think you can safely bet on that. But what would motivate the EU, most of whom are NATO members, too, to admit Turkey in return for not vetoing Ukraine's NATO membership? Is it not, in a way, beneficial to the rest of NATO not to admit Ukraine, when any skirmishes with Russia could drag all NATO members into a conflict? The pressure will come from Biden who will be expecting the EU as a collective to allow Turkey to join and any country vetoing it will be on his blacklist. The whole thing is a mess of maneuvering and political and personal expediency. In the end, as many suspected, Turkey will be fast tracked into membership of the EU. Turkey must have been promised something concrete, not just vague commitments. |
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Post by Ripley on Jul 11, 2023 20:34:51 GMT
I think you can safely bet on that. But what would motivate the EU, most of whom are NATO members, too, to admit Turkey in return for not vetoing Ukraine's NATO membership? Is it not, in a way, beneficial to the rest of NATO not to admit Ukraine, when any skirmishes with Russia could drag all NATO members into a conflict? The pressure will come from Biden who will be expecting the EU as a collective to allow Turkey to join and any country vetoing it will be on his blacklist. The whole thing is a mess of maneuvering and political and personal expediency. In the end, as many suspected, Turkey will be fast tracked into membership of the EU. Turkey must have been promised something concrete, not just vague commitments. Biden has agreed to give Turkey the F-16s Erdogan wanted, but he is in no position to offer Turkey EU membership. Nor do I see how Biden would benefit in any way from Turkey's membership in the EU. Why should he care about that? If Erdogan was promised something concrete regarding EU membership, it had to have come from someone within the EU in a position of authority to do so. Biden is just a trading partner. He has no authority in the EU. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 20:40:26 GMT
The US has always been a strong advocate for Turkey's accession to the EU. In the past it could rely on the poodle-like support of the UK, historically the strongest proponent for Turkish membership but that no longer applies.
Nobody in the EU as presently constituted supports Turkish membership so Biden is pissing into the wind if that's what he's trying to promote. Turkey's chances of joining went from slim to zero once Britain left the EU.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 20:54:37 GMT
Biden isn't a member of the EU himself so he has no right to tell the EU who to admit.
Urgh, just defended the EU.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 21:02:17 GMT
So why is the US so keen on Turkey joining the EU? Thoughts?
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 21:07:14 GMT
Biden is keen on Sweden joining NATO.
Erdogan has NATO by the balls on this, Erdogan wants membership of the EU and his support for Sweden is conditional.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 21:13:41 GMT
Why does NATO need Turkey?
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