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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 2, 2023 12:43:21 GMT
The Labour Party cannot be two political parties, it can only be one political party with one leader and one set of policies based around the values that the party adheres to. THE TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF VALUES ARE either Socialist, as under Jeremy Corbyn, or Social Democratic, as under Keir Starmer. The "Socialist" vision would, or may include unilateral dissarmament, Republicanism, colossal borrowing to fund projects such as renationalisation of utillities, welfare and public services, crushing taxes on business, arms bans to Israel, Saudi Arabia and other countries, reductions in defence spending, negotiations with Argentina on The Falkland Islands. The "Social Democratic" vision would not include unilateral dissarmament, republicanism, unsustainable borrowing, renationalising utillities whilst there are other spending priorities, impeding busineess or wealth / job creation, reducing defence spending, harming our defence industry or negotiating over The Falkland Islands. It seems to me that the Social Democratic side of The Labour Party cannot be reconciled with the Orthodox Socialist side, therefore it has to be one or the other. ALL EVIDENCE points to the more moderate Left of Centre "Social Democratic" side of Labour to be the formula for electoral success. We only have to look at the electoral performance of Labour when led by the traditional, orthodox, socialists such as Jeremy Corbyn or Michael Foot - Disaterous. The old fashioned Leftist / Socialists are squealing and complaining, but look at the opinion polls Its one OR the other, it cannot be both, and Keir Starmer is carrying on the work begun by Neil Kinnock, modernising the party, making it electable, making it appeal to a wide cross section of the electorate, including middle England, incuding dissatisfied Tories. I agree with you for once, fiddler. The question is: Can Labour decide what it wants to be?
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Post by patman post on Jul 2, 2023 13:02:43 GMT
Labour recognises that it needs to win a substantial number of Scottish seats to oust the Tories at the next general election.
According to the Daily Record: Labour predicted to win more than half of Scottish seats in new poll
New analysis by campaign group Best for Britain showed that Labour would win 31 seats in Scotland, with the SNP taking the other 26. Scotland is set to go from 59 seats to 57 after the boundary changes.
The analysis said that the SNP were "bleeding voters" who were undecided over who to vote for, which meant that Labour would pick up dozens of seats.
The survey [by Focaldata] also said that Labour could win 470 seats across the UK, giving them a majority of more than 140. The Conservatives would win only 129.www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/labour-predicted-win-more-half-30177294 Not sure of your point pat. That the snp are losing votes is undoubted. Voters are switching off from yousaf and his constant can kicking over another referendum. However , that doesnt necessarily mean they are switching to labour.
Second point is this has been done to death a million times. Only once in modern uk political history has scottish votes made a difference to who becomes the government in westminster. In 2010 , gordon broons labour for exmaple won 41/59 scottish seats and lost the election.
Blair won all three elections in england , without needing scottish seats for victory. So what labour recognises is of course yet more labour party bollocks. What is happening is the independence support is now at its highest in my lifetime , yet that support is detaching itself from the snp...
Final point is the daily record , known in scotland as the daily redcoat , in terms of its pro imperial british labour party propaganda , sells something like 50 000 copies per day. In a country of 5.5 million people , and the fact it wasnt too many years back it was flogging a quarter of a million copies a day , you can see how far it has fallen with the guff it prints such as this.
There are no doubts what so ever labour are high in the polls and looking to win the next election. Long way to go though , and it does look like extremely soft support that could fall away at any second. Be interesting to see who wins.
I think starmer will struggle to match election results with his current hype.
My point is that there appears to be two major parties locking horns in Scotland — Labour and SNP — and a recent survey predicts that Labour will take a lot of seats from SNP. It probably needs to win these seats to win a UK general election.
Circulations of all print news media have dropped. Daily Record (admittedly Labour) circulation appears to be hovering around 60,000** — I can't see any bigger out there...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 13:25:11 GMT
They will have a lot more resources than the Tories. Evidence please. Far less corruption.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 13:28:54 GMT
Labour is the most corrupt party in the country. They also tell the most lies and have openly betrayed all trust. You seem to forget than many of us went through a Labour government.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 2, 2023 13:31:56 GMT
So, as suspected, you have no actual evidence to back up your spurious claim.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 14:21:45 GMT
Labour is the most corrupt party in the country. They also tell the most lies and have openly betrayed all trust. You seem to forget than many of us went through a Labour government. As did I but I like millions of others are worse off now than we were then.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 14:22:17 GMT
Labour is the most corrupt party in the country. They also tell the most lies and have openly betrayed all trust. You seem to forget than many of us went through a Labour government. As did I but I like millions of others are worse off now than we were then. How so?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 14:24:34 GMT
So, as suspected, you have no actual evidence to back up your spurious claim. This has been done to death, where have you been? In October, Byline Times reported that twelve companies with links to the Conservative Party that were awarded coronavirus-related contracts had increased profits by 57.1%. That equates to around £121.7m. And “of the 12 firms that have filed their accounts for the relevant period, they have recorded total profits of almost £334.7 million”. Profits for one firm, Ayanda Capital, increased by 2,600%. In July 2020, The Canary reported on links between Ayanda and the government’s board of trade. Back in March, Byline Times provided details of 15 firms that were linked to millions of pounds of donations to the Conservative Party. The firms were given over a billion pounds in government contracts. Notable examples include: Global Access Diagnostics was awarded two coronavirus contracts worth £1.15bn. Also, Ali Siddiqui, one of its directors, “appears to have donated £8,000 to the Prime Minister’s brother, Jo Johnson, in 2017”, according to Byline Times. Meller Designs, whose co-owner donated over £60k to the Conservatives, won £163m worth of contracts during the pandemic. Clipper Logistics, whose founder Steve Parkin gave £730k to the Conservatives, was awarded an initial £1.3m contract to supply PPE to the NHS, with the original contract now worth £11m. During lockdown, Computacenter received in excess of £240m to provide tablets and laptops to children for home-based learning. The firm was founded by Philip Hulme, whose wife gave £100k to the Conservatives. Globus Shetland gave £375,522 to the Conservative Party and was awarded £94m to supply respirators. EMS Healthcare was awarded a contract to supply articulated mobile testing units. EMS’s chair, Iain Johnston, is a former business partner of Robert and Shirley Carter, who are former health secretary Matt Hancock’s stepfather and mother. More firms that donated to the Conservative Party and were subsequently awarded government contracts were listed by Byline Times in June. Leaked documents seen by the Good Law Project also revealed that “Cabinet Office contacts and others were helping ‘VIPs’ sell PPE to Government outside normal procurement channels” at inflated prices. The public paying for Johnson's defence. Sunak writing off billions in fraud.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 14:24:56 GMT
As did I but I like millions of others are worse off now than we were then. How so? Seriously?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 14:26:03 GMT
This is usually how this works. Of course, you can retract your statement.
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Post by thomas on Jul 2, 2023 15:06:08 GMT
Not sure of your point pat. That the snp are losing votes is undoubted. Voters are switching off from yousaf and his constant can kicking over another referendum. However , that doesnt necessarily mean they are switching to labour.
Second point is this has been done to death a million times. Only once in modern uk political history has scottish votes made a difference to who becomes the government in westminster. In 2010 , gordon broons labour for exmaple won 41/59 scottish seats and lost the election.
Blair won all three elections in england , without needing scottish seats for victory. So what labour recognises is of course yet more labour party bollocks. What is happening is the independence support is now at its highest in my lifetime , yet that support is detaching itself from the snp...
Final point is the daily record , known in scotland as the daily redcoat , in terms of its pro imperial british labour party propaganda , sells something like 50 000 copies per day. In a country of 5.5 million people , and the fact it wasnt too many years back it was flogging a quarter of a million copies a day , you can see how far it has fallen with the guff it prints such as this.
There are no doubts what so ever labour are high in the polls and looking to win the next election. Long way to go though , and it does look like extremely soft support that could fall away at any second. Be interesting to see who wins.
I think starmer will struggle to match election results with his current hype.
My point is that there appears to be two major parties locking horns in Scotland — Labour and SNP — and a recent survey predicts that Labour will take a lot of seats from SNP. It probably needs to win these seats to win a UK general election.
Circulations of all print news media have dropped. Daily Record (admittedly Labour) circulation appears to be hovering around 60,000** — I can't see any bigger out there...
Not true.
Former Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale has said the independence movement is “not in turmoil” and significant progress by Labour in the polls in Scotland cannot yet be “banked on”
Its been consistently above the 50 % barrier in recent years. Many polling experts are constantly remarking on how all major pollsters are still "weighting " polls to the 2014 referendum , which is a bit strange to say the least as the referendum was 9 years ago , new voters have come online , with many elderly passing .
The find out now poll i quoted to the squeezed middle for example has now had 6 out of 6 polls showing the yes movement for scot indy consitently in the lead.
"SETTLED WILL" SENSATION on eve of special SNP conference: yet ANOTHER Find Out Now poll shows a majority of Scottish voters want independence
I can't 100% guarantee the provenance of this, but Marcia has directed me towards a website claiming that yet another Find Out Now poll is showing Yes in the lead - if it's confirmed, that'll be six out of six for Yes in polls conducted by that firm.
Should Scotland be an independent country? (Find Out Now, 13th-20th June 2023) Yes 47.9% No 45.0%
I can't find the figures with Don't Knows excluded, but a rough recalculation suggests Yes may just about make it to 52% when rounded to the nearest whole number. Very disappointingly, it looks like Find Out Now have introduced weighting by recalled 2014 indyref vote in this poll - that's a massive step backwards given the danger of false recall from a vote that took place almost a decade ago. However, there's some reassurance to be gained from the fact that Yes still have the lead even after that retrograde methodological change.
Another limitation of this poll is that 16 and 17 year olds are excluded from the sample, which may conceivably have led to a very slight understatement of the Yes vote.
you misunderstand. Im not suggesting thee are bigger circulations out there , im suggesting the pro uk media in scotland such as newspapers are dying as they dont reflect the views of the scottish public.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 15:11:16 GMT
The Labour Party cannot be two political parties, it can only be one political party with one leader and one set of policies based around the values that the party adheres to. THE TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF VALUES ARE either Socialist, as under Jeremy Corbyn, or Social Democratic, as under Keir Starmer. The "Socialist" vision would, or may include unilateral dissarmament, Republicanism, colossal borrowing to fund projects such as renationalisation of utillities, welfare and public services, crushing taxes on business, arms bans to Israel, Saudi Arabia and other countries, reductions in defence spending, negotiations with Argentina on The Falkland Islands. The "Social Democratic" vision would not include unilateral dissarmament, republicanism, unsustainable borrowing, renationalising utillities whilst there are other spending priorities, impeding busineess or wealth / job creation, reducing defence spending, harming our defence industry or negotiating over The Falkland Islands. It seems to me that the Social Democratic side of The Labour Party cannot be reconciled with the Orthodox Socialist side, therefore it has to be one or the other. ALL EVIDENCE points to the more moderate Left of Centre "Social Democratic" side of Labour to be the formula for electoral success. We only have to look at the electoral performance of Labour when led by the traditional, orthodox, socialists such as Jeremy Corbyn or Michael Foot - Disaterous. The old fashioned Leftist / Socialists are squealing and complaining, but look at the opinion polls Its one OR the other, it cannot be both, and Keir Starmer is carrying on the work begun by Neil Kinnock, modernising the party, making it electable, making it appeal to a wide cross section of the electorate, including middle England, incuding dissatisfied Tories. I agree with you for once, fiddler. The question is: Can Labour decide what it wants to be? The answer is a resounding Yes it can ..... Take the case of Mr Jamie Driscoll, a Left wing member of the Labour Party, supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and other members who belong to the far Left. Mr Driscoll put his name in the hat to become the newly created North East Mayor candidate for Labour, but his candidacy was thrown out by the NEC. Unfortunately Mr Driscoll is or was a member of Momentum, some say a party within a party, similar to Militant in the 1980s, Momentum is often critical of the present Labour Party and of Keir Starmer .... This in my view is unacceptable when trying to show the electorate a united front, and a party unified ready for government. We do not want sitting MPs or elected Labour Mayors acting like thorns in the side of the party, constantly criticising, constantly rebelling, constantly been the headlines in newspapers that look for every opportunity to highlight division within the Labour Party. The time has come, these people either unite and work together or get out
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 2, 2023 15:14:29 GMT
I agree with you for once, fiddler. The question is: Can Labour decide what it wants to be? The answer is a resounding Yes it can ..... Take the case of Mr Jamie Driscoll, a Left wing member of the Labour Party, supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and other members who belong to the far Left. Mr Driscoll put his name in the hat to become the newly created North East Mayor candidate for Labour, but his candidacy was thrown out by the NEC. Unfortunately Mr Driscoll is or was a member of Momentum, some say a party within a party, similar to Militant in the 1980s, Momentum is often critical of the present Labour Party and of Keir Starmer .... This in my view is unacceptable when trying to show the electorate a united front, and a party unified ready for government. We do not want sitting MPs or elected Labour Mayors acting like thorns in the side of the party, constantly criticising, constantly rebelling, constantly been the headlines in newspapers that look for every opportunity to highlight division within the Labour Party. The time has come, these people either unite and work together or get out And I don't beleive that they ever can. Which is why people like me will never, ever vote Labour. Let's be honest: Blair's government wasn't bad but there was always the nagging feeling that Blair would at some point be ousted and replaced by some gibbering far left loon. I get exactly the same feeling about Starmer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 15:16:35 GMT
This is usually how this works. Of course, you can retract your statement. Do you not eat, pay bills, use transport, buy things.....?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 15:19:43 GMT
This is usually how this works. Of course, you can retract your statement. Do you not eat, pay bills, use transport, buy things.....? Sure, but I don't see the relevance or how Labour will improve anything, considering they're totally corrupt and wasteful. Nothing good will come of it. They have no solutions to anything. Nobody even knows what Starmer stands for. I don't even think Starmer knows. If you plan on making global issues the fault of the Tories then it's up to the good people to point this out.
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