|
|
Post by thomas on Jun 29, 2023 13:43:47 GMT
As i have said up the thread , show me a platform where this nirvana of politeness and lack of playground abuse exists?
As a forum member i have given you my view. It isnt broken , so dont fix it. Its about achieving balance , not strangling debate because some cant handle the baser side of human nature.
This forum achieves that balance in my view .
That goes without saying. It also works both ways.
Using offensive words just infâmes an offensive reply. Whats wrong with offensive words?
In glasgow , saying alright ya C##t is considered a form of welcome .
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 29, 2023 14:19:24 GMT
Dappy, as long as you are mentally consigning half the population to 'a silo' or pretending some handy bogeyman invented internet politics in 2016, you are actually making the problem slightly worse by refusing to engage using reason. Your absurd, counterfactual positions make polarisation unavoidable Actually his post was a very thoughtful contribution and made a lot of sense. It is self-evidently obvious that Trump is unfit for office yet millions of Americans seem to view him as some sort of political messiah who is victim of a massive establishmentarian conspiracy. That so many believe this requires explanation and Dappy has put forward reasonable arguments as to how that has come to be, and most of what he has said stacks up. He did not say that the internet was invented in 2016 which is just an untrue straw man. What he said was actually more nuanced, that around about that time a certain populist operator whom he named as Steve Bannon, cynically realised the potential for using the internet to establish echo chambers where false narratives useful for his cause could become established. Other right wing populists have learned from this. If the left also learns to do this on the same scale we really will be in trouble. I'm not comfortable where those on the opposite side of the political divide decide who is and who is not fit for office. The Electorate decide who is fit for office nobody else. I think it is self-evidently obvious that Corbyn is unfit for office - but I accept that there are people willing to overlook his flaws and record who would still vote for him. As for echo chambers of false narratives, it is the progressive Left who are most keen on silencing views they disagree with - heaven help anyone suggesting that Colonialism was not all bad or that Structural Racism is not that widespread.. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 29, 2023 14:23:24 GMT
So basically, the problem is the right. Ban the right and the left will live is peace and harmony forever and ever in the EU. Nonsense. Who suggested banning the right? You can attack that straw man of an idea if you wish but it serves no constructive purpose because no one thinks the right can or should be banned. On a similar point I see that the remain establishment have learnt from the Aaron Banks - having made the mistake of accusing him of accepting Russian money in a public arena and lost they are now going after Nigel Farage. This time though the accusation was made in parliament using Parliamentary privilege which prevents him from taking similar court action to Banks. Result now that he has been accused is that his bank is closing his account and no other UK bank will entertain him as a customer. Seems there are ways and means of banning people who you politically disagree with.. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 29, 2023 15:11:33 GMT
Using offensive words just infâmes an offensive reply. Whats wrong with offensive words?
In glasgow , saying alright ya C##t is considered a form of welcome .
I don't give a toss what it means in Glasgow. There is an accepted form of conversation which is neutral and mutually respectable. This is as I understand it, open to the public. It is not a Glasgow pub or street. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 29, 2023 15:17:17 GMT
A debating cmub is not intended to change any minds. It is to find flaws in logic and consistency in the arguments of the others. Whether someone changes his mind is not in the gift of the one who argues more coherently than the other. So, the purpose of a debate is to discover that you were right all along? Seems pretty pointless. This place is more like a social club than a debating forum. It is a social club built around a debating format. If we wanted to merely debate, we would go somewhere like Twitter. But we would be anonymous there. That's why we come here (well, most of us). This place is about its characters for a lot of us: the people we love to love and love to hate. Except that this is not your own exclusive club. It is open and unsecured. It is not a social club. If that is what you want, you will have to pay for membership and be approved. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jun 29, 2023 15:26:15 GMT
So, the purpose of a debate is to discover that you were right all along? Seems pretty pointless. This place is more like a social club than a debating forum. It is a social club built around a debating format. If we wanted to merely debate, we would go somewhere like Twitter. But we would be anonymous there. That's why we come here (well, most of us). This place is about its characters for a lot of us: the people we love to love and love to hate. Except that this is not your own exclusive club. It is open and unsecured. It is not a social club. If that is what you want, you will have to pay for membership and be approved. It's full of characters. If we have to obey stringent rules, our posts will all begin to look the same. At the moment, I could tell you who made a post just by reading it, without looking at the avatar. That would change with stringent rules, and this place would become dull as fuck within months as every post began to be the same. And I like the freedom to call someone like Vinny an arsehole. That's a big part of the charm of the place. If you don't like it, you have the Mind Zone. Everyone's happy. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jun 29, 2023 15:36:56 GMT
It is what the posters make it and what the mods allow .
|
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 29, 2023 15:47:48 GMT
Except that this is not your own exclusive club. It is open and unsecured. It is not a social club. If that is what you want, you will have to pay for membership and be approved. It's full of characters. If we have to obey stringent rules, our posts will all begin to look the same. At the moment, I could tell you who made a post just by reading it, without looking at the avatar. That would change with stringent rules, and this place would become dull as fuck within months as every post began to be the same. And I like the freedom to call someone like Vinny an arsehole. That's a big part of the charm of the place. If you don't like it, you have the Mind Zone. Everyone's happy. You are missing the whole issue. Thr subject is how people talk to each other in this zone...THE MIND ZONE. Which is described as "for polite conversation only: but has been "invaded" by those who aren't sure how to be polite. Go ahead and use the strongest language you think will change anything ( it wont) but do it somewhere else. Not in THIS area. And while I am on a keyboard I understand there are 6 mods. We are now into the 5th page of this thread. It has covered the use of language, Corbyn, the last election, and even à mention ( no surprises here) of Brexit...JoG said his post should be in another thread. Why then did he post it in here? So far I don't think I have seen a single mod post to this thread, except one who was actually the one who mentioned Brexit. Frankly no comment among 6 mods is ...surprising. Frankly I can't remember who they are because only à couple seem to do anything at all. After 5 pages of défense of bad language in an area which is said to be polite, plus multiple off topic posts, Perhaps one of the Magnificent 6 might put in an appearance? |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Jun 29, 2023 15:48:06 GMT
Actually his post was a very thoughtful contribution and made a lot of sense. It is self-evidently obvious that Trump is unfit for office yet millions of Americans seem to view him as some sort of political messiah who is victim of a massive establishmentarian conspiracy. That so many believe this requires explanation and Dappy has put forward reasonable arguments as to how that has come to be, and most of what he has said stacks up. He did not say that the internet was invented in 2016 which is just an untrue straw man. What he said was actually more nuanced, that around about that time a certain populist operator whom he named as Steve Bannon, cynically realised the potential for using the internet to establish echo chambers where false narratives useful for his cause could become established. Other right wing populists have learned from this. If the left also learns to do this on the same scale we really will be in trouble. I have always thought that suggesting that someone refuses to engage using reason was hardly complimentary as well as accusing one of absurd counterfactual input, accompanies by not one example, impolite and possibly trolling. Talking about half the population residing in 'a silo' wasn't complimentary either - but a political discussion isn't supposed to be a round of compliments. What surprised me is the contrast between this and Cartonian's attempt to rise above partisanship and talk about human nature and how quickly Dappy took this ball and ran straight into the usual Trump derangement nonsense |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jun 29, 2023 15:51:34 GMT
It's full of characters. If we have to obey stringent rules, our posts will all begin to look the same. At the moment, I could tell you who made a post just by reading it, without looking at the avatar. That would change with stringent rules, and this place would become dull as fuck within months as every post began to be the same. And I like the freedom to call someone like Vinny an arsehole. That's a big part of the charm of the place. If you don't like it, you have the Mind Zone. Everyone's happy. You are missing the whole issue. Thr subject is how people talk to each other in this zone...THE MIND ZONE. Which is described as "for polite conversation only: but has been "invaded" by those who aren't sure how to be polite. Go ahead and use the strongest language you think will change anything ( it wont) but do it somewhere else. Not in THIS area. And while I am on a keyboard I understand there are 6 mods. We are now into the 5th page of this thread. It has covered the use of language, Corbyn, the last election, and even à mention ( no surprises here) of Brexit...JoG said his post should be in another thread. Why then did he post it in here? So far I don't think I have seen a single mod post to this thread, except one who was actually the one who mentioned Brexit. Frankly no comment among 6 mods is ...surprising. Frankly I can't remember who they are because only à couple seem to do anything at all. After 5 pages of défense of bad language in an area which is said to be polite, plus multiple off topic posts, Perhaps one of the Magnificent 6 might put in an appearance? Ah, okay. Apologies. I did miss the point. I was discussing the forum as a whole. Yes, I agree the Mind Zone should be different (that's the whole point). |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 29, 2023 15:55:11 GMT
I don't see why discussing human nature, à non aligned neutral subject, should descend into à défense of the right to verbally abuse others.
However there is a possibility that the OP knew exactly what he was doing, put two cocks into the ring and sat back to watch the inevitable result..
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jun 29, 2023 15:56:36 GMT
I don't see why discussing human nature, à non aligned neutral subject, should descend into à défense of the right to verbally abuse others. However there is a possibility that the OP knew exactly what he was doing, put two cocks into the ring and sat back to watch the inevitable result.. It's not as if the OP wasn't discussed. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 29, 2023 16:03:53 GMT
I don't see why discussing human nature, à non aligned neutral subject, should descend into à défense of the right to verbally abuse others. However there is a possibility that the OP knew exactly what he was doing, put two cocks into the ring and sat back to watch the inevitable result.. It's not as if the OP wasn't discussed. It was for à few posts, then branched out into some organic shape with a mind of its own. I don't object to that of course but then it came back to the first premise. So the whole thread became a mess , which is why I wondered where the 6 mods are. Can we please just remember that if you want to slag someone off, don't do it in here? There is the whole rest of the site in which to throw snowballs. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 29, 2023 16:05:49 GMT
It's full of characters. If we have to obey stringent rules, our posts will all begin to look the same. At the moment, I could tell you who made a post just by reading it, without looking at the avatar. That would change with stringent rules, and this place would become dull as fuck within months as every post began to be the same. And I like the freedom to call someone like Vinny an arsehole. That's a big part of the charm of the place. If you don't like it, you have the Mind Zone. Everyone's happy. You are missing the whole issue. Thr subject is how people talk to each other in this zone...THE MIND ZONE. Which is described as "for polite conversation only: but has been "invaded" by those who aren't sure how to be polite. Go ahead and use the strongest language you think will change anything ( it wont) but do it somewhere else. Not in THIS area. And while I am on a keyboard I understand there are 6 mods. We are now into the 5th page of this thread. It has covered the use of language, Corbyn, the last election, and even à mention ( no surprises here) of Brexit...JoG said his post should be in another thread. Why then did he post it in here? So far I don't think I have seen a single mod post to this thread, except one who was actually the one who mentioned Brexit. Frankly no comment among 6 mods is ...surprising. Frankly I can't remember who they are because only à couple seem to do anything at all. After 5 pages of défense of bad language in an area which is said to be polite, plus multiple off topic posts,
Perhaps one of the Magnificent 6 might put in an appearance?
Well there have already been 3 moderators contributing to this thread, but you cannot force people to post. As a general point about the level of moderation of Mind Zone - if a post is reported it is generally acted on fairly swiftly. Otherwise control of what gets posted is reliant on a moderator happening to read the thread - we dont spend 24/7 searching through each thread looking for offences against the rules. I would just personally say that those who complain about the level of moderation tend not to be shy at responding in kind to some of the playground insults we get - so I end up deleting a lot of back and forth between posters where if they had just reported the original post and then refrained from replying in kind, we wouldn't be seeing so many off topic contributions. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 29, 2023 16:05:57 GMT
I don't see why discussing human nature, à non aligned neutral subject, should descend into à défense of the right to verbally abuse others. However there is a possibility that the OP knew exactly what he was doing, put two cocks into the ring and sat back to watch the inevitable result.. I would disagree. Putting a point up for debate in the Mind Zone should encourage actual debate of the points in a reasoned and polite fashion free from sarcasm, rudeness, name calling, references to intelligence or the lack thereof and indeed comments that say nothing. People may tend to get a bit excited but it's politics. I would hardly say human nature is a non aligned neutral subject. |
|
