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Post by Einhorn on Jun 11, 2023 9:11:01 GMT
Parliament is a debating chamber. If everything was decided in a manifesto before the election, there would be no need to debate it. So, there would be no need for Westminster. Every MP could just mail their vote in. Do you want those policies to be debated, Sheeps? You answered your own question again, it is all hot air. When a party sets out its manifesto, it does so in the context of taking that manifesto to Parliament where it will be debated. There's no point in debate if it can't have the effect of changing the minds of the people who made the manifesto. So, when a party sets out its manifesto it impliedly states that it is subject to its not having its mind changed in the debate in Westminster. If that wasn't implied, there may as well not be a Westminster at all. If the debate is pointless, MPs might as well just post their vote in. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 11, 2023 9:13:21 GMT
You answered your own question again, it is all hot air. When a party sets out its manifesto, it does so in the context of taking that manifesto to Parliament where it will be debated. There's no point in debate if it can't change minds. So, when a party sets out its manifesto it impliedly states that it is subject to its not having its mind changed in the debate in Westminster. If that wasn't implied, then there may as well not be a Westminster at all. If the debate is pointless, MPs might as well just post their vote in. So what is the point in voting for it in the first place, if 650 people can take the point of voting away for their own selfish means? |
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Post by Orac on Jun 11, 2023 9:13:25 GMT
This is only a legality / technicality - if people are voting for a party, the party is what is being compared and selected. If people vote for hairstyles, the same applies. It’s not just a technicality because if it were, parties wouldn’t be able to change leaders at a whim It is a technicality in this context. A party (i presume) is within its rights to depose its party leader in the afternoon of the day it is declared the winner. Sure - it is technically able to do this. An elected president can resign on the same day he is elected and hand his power over to his VP. - he is technically able to do this However, when people vote in a general election they are substantially voting because of a comparisons between leaders - they are, to a large degree, voting a particular way because of a particular leader |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 11, 2023 9:15:03 GMT
What a crock of absolute shit. Meanwhile, in the real world Johnson has been found to be what he so obviously was to most sensible people, a brazen liar. And to try and minimise his lies by wittering on about cake or employing whataboutery regarding others who were cleared, is frankly risible. Because the fact is serious drinking sessions breaking all the rules were taking place in Downing Street whilst the public were b eing fined large sums for less and many could not say goodbye to their loved ones. That is far more shockingly emotive to the public than a bit of fucking cake, you absolute clowns. lol Yes. Because telling a porkie about eating a piece of cake and drinking alcohol means the elected PM should be harassed out of office and a job when the likes of Beer Korma and Ginger growler carry on with their Rishi 2.0 impersonation. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 11, 2023 9:16:26 GMT
When a party sets out its manifesto, it does so in the context of taking that manifesto to Parliament where it will be debated. There's no point in debate if it can't change minds. So, when a party sets out its manifesto it impliedly states that it is subject to its not having its mind changed in the debate in Westminster. If that wasn't implied, then there may as well not be a Westminster at all. If the debate is pointless, MPs might as well just post their vote in. So what is the point in voting for it in the first place, if 650 people can take the point of voting away for their own selfish means? If the Government is bound to its manifesto to the extent that it can't change it, then Westminster might as well shut down. What's the point? If debate can't change the Government's mind, then there is no point in having a debate or Westminster. MPs could just post their votes in. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 11, 2023 9:17:27 GMT
So what is the point in voting for it in the first place, if 650 people can take the point of voting away for their own selfish means? If the Government is bound to its manifesto to the extent that it can't change it, then Westminster might as well shut down. What's the point? If debate can't change its mind, then there is no point in having a debate or Westminster. MPs could just post their votes in. Good point shut it down before it can do even more damage, we agree again. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 11, 2023 9:19:38 GMT
If the Government is bound to its manifesto to the extent that it can't change it, then Westminster might as well shut down. What's the point? If debate can't change its mind, then there is no point in having a debate or Westminster. MPs could just post their votes in. Good point shut it down before it can do even more damage, we agree again. Well, Boris did his best to shut Westminster down. Didn't turn out the way he wanted. So, I don't imagine The Daily Mail chavs will have any more luck. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 11, 2023 9:20:41 GMT
Good point shut it down before it can do even more damage, we agree again. Well, Boris did his best to shut Westminster down. Didn't turn out the way he wanted. So, I don't imagine The Daily Mail chavs will have any more luck. Coy in victory as usual. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 11, 2023 9:24:49 GMT
Good point shut it down before it can do even more damage, we agree again. Well, Boris did his best to shut Westminster down. Didn't turn out the way he wanted. So, I don't imagine The Daily Mail chavs will have any more luck. If you remember the bizarre happenings in Westminster when Bercow and his remaining bunch of remainiacs forced a general election because they trying to thwart democracy and cancel Brexit, some people do have short selective memories. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 11, 2023 9:25:49 GMT
The people democratically elected Boris to oversee Brexit, and under his party leadership the Conservatives took us out of the EU. The filthy corrupt establishment, made up of vile and corrupt sickos in Labour, the civil service and no doubt a few Blairwhores in the Tories, are working overtime to undermine the people and their democratic choice.
It's democracy and the people of the United Kingdom that is being attacked, not just Boris. The United Kingdom is a corrupt shit hole, and it's clearly going to get worse.
Agreed, the public unanimously voted for Boris to lead the country in 2019, since then we've had two unelected replacements, and there could even be a third.
It is our democratic right to choose who runs the country, not a bunch of in-house disgruntled bitter remainer back stabbers constantly colluding until they get their own remainer to run our country. We are slowly watching our democratic vote to leave systematically being overturned by a unelected self-governing bunch of remainer Tory traitors.
We are being cheated right under our very noses, it's gutter politics at work.
Yes, but you won't have missed that since the elected PM was forced out of office, the media, institutions and commentators have gone into hyper-drive with disinformation about how bad Brexit has been. They hope that by the time an election comes around, some useful idiot like Keir Korma will be able to steer the UK back into the SM on the narrative the UK economy has tanked (bullshit) somewhat, and there is no populist figure on the opposition willing to challenge them. UK politics and its corruption is down there in the gutter with Russia's. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 11, 2023 9:31:35 GMT
Agreed, the public unanimously voted for Boris to lead the country in 2019, since then we've had two unelected replacements, and there could even be a third.
It is our democratic right to choose who runs the country, not a bunch of in-house disgruntled bitter remainer back stabbers constantly colluding until they get their own remainer to run our country. We are slowly watching our democratic vote to leave systematically being overturned by a unelected self-governing bunch of remainer Tory traitors.
We are being cheated right under our very noses, it's gutter politics at work.
Yes, but you won't have missed that since the elected PM was forced out of office, the media, institutions and commentators have gone into hyper-drive with disinformation about how bad Brexit has been. They hope that by the time an election comes around, some useful idiot like Keir Korma will be able to steer the UK back into the SM on the narrative the UK economy has tanked (bullshit) somewhat, and there is no populist figure on the opposition willing to challenge them. UK politics and its corruption is down there in the gutter with Russia's. I'm in no doubt where all this is leading to, there's some very powerful influence at work, and I strongly suspect the EU elite are pulling the strings.
The media are turning into a bunch of following sheep, proper investigative journalism is none existent, they spend their time trolling the internet for their stories, hence the reason most of them are nothing short of fantasy, if they dug their heels and went back to basics of proper foot work journalism they'd come up with some startling 'facts', ones that would see the end of Starmer career.
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Post by Orac on Jun 11, 2023 9:33:49 GMT
You could perhaps enforce a 'manifesto humiliation ritual'.
Parties would be required to provide a simple line-item manifesto, with a one line entry for each of their high priorities.
When the next election is declared, the party in power would be required to provide a single paragraph explanation for each item on why they failed.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 11, 2023 9:34:25 GMT
The clue is in the word "landslide"
Definition "landslide"
noun: landslide; plural noun: landslides
1.
a collapse of a mass of earth or rock from a mountain or cliff.
"the road was blocked by a landslide"
2.
an overwhelming majority of votes for one party or candidate in an election.
"they won by a landslide"
Idiot.
Only 43% is far from unanimous,, Fairy. In fact, 43% is a minority. The UK system allows the majority to be ruled by a minority. I'll say that again in case it hasn't sunk in: the UK system allows the majority to be ruled by a minority. For those who don't know the definition of 'landslide victory'. I think that you have forgotten what you said - noone is denying that there was a landslide. What I was saying is that people did not "unanimously" vote for him in 2019. As Darling pointed out, only a minority voted for him (or Conservative). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2023 9:36:04 GMT
Agreed, the public unanimously voted for Boris to lead the country in 2019, since then we've had two unelected replacements, and there could even be a third.
It is our democratic right to choose who runs the country, not a bunch of in-house disgruntled bitter remainer back stabbers constantly colluding until they get their own remainer to run our country. We are slowly watching our democratic vote to leave systematically being overturned by a unelected self-governing bunch of remainer Tory traitors.
We are being cheated right under our very noses, it's gutter politics at work.
Yes, but you won't have missed that since the elected PM was forced out of office, the media, institutions and commentators have gone into hyper-drive with disinformation about how bad Brexit has been. They hope that by the time an election comes around, some useful idiot like Keir Korma will be able to steer the UK back into the SM on the narrative the UK economy has tanked (bullshit) somewhat, and there is no populist figure on the opposition willing to challenge them. UK politics and its corruption is down there in the gutter with Russia's. So it's no wonder that many lefties on here are totally in support of it. The country is being taken by the Borg. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 11, 2023 9:37:39 GMT
Well, Boris did his best to shut Westminster down. Didn't turn out the way he wanted. So, I don't imagine The Daily Mail chavs will have any more luck. If you remember the bizarre happenings in Westminster when Bercow and his remaining bunch of remainiacs forced a general election because they trying to thwart democracy and cancel Brexit, some people do have short selective memories. You mean after the 'advisory' referendum? Switzerland and Sweden hold advisory referendums too. In 2014, Sweden voted in an advisory referendum to change the side of the road drivers drive on. The Government found that it was too dangerous to implement, and they didn't implement the result of the referendum. There was no fuss because it was an advisory referendum. In Switzerland, the people voted in an advisory referendum to put quotas on freedom of movement. In the end, the Government decided that it wasn't in the peoples' interests to have the quotas, and they were scrapped. There was no fuss because it was an advisory referendum. It's only Brexiters who don't know the difference between an advisory and a mandatory referendum. By the way, both Sweden and Switzerland rank higher than the UK on the Democracy Index than the UK (not surprising, given that the UK system allows a minority (43%) to rule the majority (how is that democracy?)) |
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