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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 7:24:25 GMT
Green areas are cooler than urban ones because they don't trap heat like narrow streets with concrete structures. The cooling effect has nothing to do with photosynthesis.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 7:26:44 GMT
Indirectly by reducing the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere, but then we already new reducing Co2 in the atmosphere reduces global warming didn't we. So why are you arguing with yourself? Everyone read what you said. You claimed the process of photosynthesis caused cooling and that was why green areas were cooler. I just correct you on that.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 28, 2023 7:27:45 GMT
So why are you arguing with yourself? Everyone read what you said. You claimed the process of photosynthesis caused cooling and that was why green areas were cooler. I just correct you on that. No I didn't. You made that up.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 28, 2023 7:38:02 GMT
So, as we have ascertained that the countryside is cooler than the city, which our esteemed zany points out because large areas of building hold the heat, how will being over populated and building large amounts of housing in green belt areas lower global warming? When our eminent scientist Zany points out it will make it worse? Now I have spoken.
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Post by wapentake on Jun 28, 2023 8:05:01 GMT
And there it was on the tv news “This was the hottest June since records began and we better get used to it because it’s climate change” So there we are sun in the summer and those records going back all those years,I wonder that nothing was done before now the Romans did nothing about it just grew their grapes in the north of England all those years ago.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 28, 2023 12:48:13 GMT
That is not necessarily true. Take the hottest day on record in the UK, 19th July last year at Coningsby. It is well known that there is an issue with the weather station location at Coningsby (next to an active runway). This never used to be an issue when we used the old mercury thermometers as they were slow to respond, but now they use electronic thermometers that respond almost immediately to changes in temp. So on the day the record was set the temp suddenly jumped to the new record and then just as fast fell back - now what could have caused a thermometer next to an active runway record a spike in temperature?. So yes, we do have new, more accurate equipment - does that necessarily give us an accurate reading though? That's an very interesting aside. But ofcourse it was a one off anomaly rather than persistent inaccuracy. It is an aside that has been stated several times on here and the continual rejection of 'one-off anomalies' that pile up in the global warmists dustbins actually raises questions as regards the veracity of the hypothesis. The whole point of having a hypothesis is that when you crunch the numbers it proves the hypothesis. So far there are anomalies all over the place that are either unexplained or correction factored away so as not to cause a problem. No way to settle science.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 28, 2023 13:01:39 GMT
Reasons exist for odd temperature results but the 1940 blip was in the official data from all the official reading points and cannot be explained within the hypothesis that man is directly responsible for global warming through CO2 levels as CO2 increases and the temp falls back even as production worldwide was pumping out CO2 at record rates for war production. The point about a hypothesis is that the data is supposed to confirm that hypothesis not raise questions that cannot be answered within the parameters of the hypothesis. Average global temperatures have steadily risen during the 20th century – the graph of increasing temperature is an image frequently used to illustrate man-made climate change. But the graph does not climb steadily: a number of dips and rises occur over the century. One of these, late in 1945, is more pronounced than the others. The cause of the 1945 dip has so far remained a mystery, something highlighted by people who doubt that climate change is caused by human fossil-fuel burning. They say it is proof that burning fossil fuels cannot explain changes in the climate during the 20th century, given that fossil fuels were being burnt throughout. That objection may be laid to rest with a study published today in Nature. According to David Thompson of Colorado State University, US, and colleagues it is all down to buckets and human error. The researchers took a detailed look at the international temperature dataset used by most contemporary climate studies. They first filtered out the effects of natural climate events which are known to cause variations in temperature, such as El Niño events. In the filtered temperature record, dips were even more pronounced. Each one corresponded to a large volcanic eruption, except for the largest, in 1945. Volcanic eruptions spew large amounts of gases and particles into the atmosphere which block solar radiation and therefore cool the planet. Human “error” The global temperature graph is a combination of temperatures taken on land and at sea. When the researchers looked at the land measurements only they saw no dip in 1945. Records taken at sea, however, do show the dip. This suggests that it may be an artefact of how such measurements were taken during the second world war. Prior to the war, UK and US fleets had contributed roughly equally to the global temperature record. From 1942 to 1945, UK ships, previously an important gatherer of sea water temperatures, were mobilised on the front and contributed just 5% of measurements. Measurements taken from US ships made up 80%. The key, then, is how each nation took its measurements. UK ships tended to throw a bucket overboard and lift it on deck to take the water’s temperature. US ships by and large would sample water drawn into the engine room before it was used to cool the machinery.It does raise many questions but more importantly why the interchange as regards the blip and why they would wish to delete emails discussing its potential removal From: Tom Wigley <wigley@ucar.edu> To: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk> Subject: 1940s Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:25:38 -0600 Cc: Ben Santer <santer1@llnl.gov> It would be good to remove at least part of the 1940s blip, but we are still left with “why the blip”. di2.nu/foia/1254108338.txt Mike, Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise… Can you also email Gene [Wahl] and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar [Ammann] to do likewise. Cheers, Phil An important aspect of science demanding action from the public is that it is open and honest and above board. Why would a scientist wish emails to be deleted that discussed procedures to 'correct' data on which the world was expected to act.
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Post by Toreador on Jun 28, 2023 13:18:35 GMT
Average global temperatures have steadily risen during the 20th century – the graph of increasing temperature is an image frequently used to illustrate man-made climate change. But the graph does not climb steadily: a number of dips and rises occur over the century. One of these, late in 1945, is more pronounced than the others. The cause of the 1945 dip has so far remained a mystery, something highlighted by people who doubt that climate change is caused by human fossil-fuel burning. They say it is proof that burning fossil fuels cannot explain changes in the climate during the 20th century, given that fossil fuels were being burnt throughout. That objection may be laid to rest with a study published today in Nature. According to David Thompson of Colorado State University, US, and colleagues it is all down to buckets and human error. The researchers took a detailed look at the international temperature dataset used by most contemporary climate studies. They first filtered out the effects of natural climate events which are known to cause variations in temperature, such as El Niño events. In the filtered temperature record, dips were even more pronounced. Each one corresponded to a large volcanic eruption, except for the largest, in 1945. Volcanic eruptions spew large amounts of gases and particles into the atmosphere which block solar radiation and therefore cool the planet. Human “error” The global temperature graph is a combination of temperatures taken on land and at sea. When the researchers looked at the land measurements only they saw no dip in 1945. Records taken at sea, however, do show the dip. This suggests that it may be an artefact of how such measurements were taken during the second world war. Prior to the war, UK and US fleets had contributed roughly equally to the global temperature record. From 1942 to 1945, UK ships, previously an important gatherer of sea water temperatures, were mobilised on the front and contributed just 5% of measurements. Measurements taken from US ships made up 80%. The key, then, is how each nation took its measurements. UK ships tended to throw a bucket overboard and lift it on deck to take the water’s temperature. US ships by and large would sample water drawn into the engine room before it was used to cool the machinery.It does raise many questions but more importantly why the interchange as regards the blip and why they would wish to delete emails discussing its potential removal From: Tom Wigley <wigley@ucar.edu> To: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk> Subject: 1940s Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:25:38 -0600 Cc: Ben Santer <santer1@llnl.gov> It would be good to remove at least part of the 1940s blip, but we are still left with “why the blip”. di2.nu/foia/1254108338.txt Mike, Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise… Can you also email Gene [Wahl] and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar [Ammann] to do likewise. Cheers, Phil An important aspect of science demanding action from the public is that it is open and honest and above board. Why would a scientist wish emails to be deleted that discussed procedures to 'correct' data on which the world was expected to act. Well researched Sandy.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 13:20:03 GMT
So, as we have ascertained that the countryside is cooler than the city, which our esteemed zany points out because large areas of building hold the heat, how will being over populated and building large amounts of housing in green belt areas lower global warming? When our eminent scientist Zany points out it will make it worse? Now I have spoken. Your eminent scientist Zany can also do some maths. Perhaps you can too. Start with how much of the planet is urbanised, when you have that percent, work out what percentage more of the planet we need to be urbanised to build a million homes in the UK. I think you'll find the result is somewhere around diddly squat.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 13:25:34 GMT
It does raise many questions but more importantly why the interchange as regards the blip and why they would wish to delete emails discussing its potential removal From: Tom Wigley <wigley@ucar.edu> To: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk> Subject: 1940s Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:25:38 -0600 Cc: Ben Santer <santer1@llnl.gov> It would be good to remove at least part of the 1940s blip, but we are still left with “why the blip”. di2.nu/foia/1254108338.txt Mike, Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise… Can you also email Gene [Wahl] and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar [Ammann] to do likewise. Cheers, Phil An important aspect of science demanding action from the public is that it is open and honest and above board. Why would a scientist wish emails to be deleted that discussed procedures to 'correct' data on which the world was expected to act. Well researched Sandy. The answer is obvious. The scientists concerned were clearly aware of the endless bloggers (Such as Sandypine's source) on the internet who seize on any anomaly that cannot be explained as proof global warming does not exist. They were worried that something they knew to be an anomaly and not a trend would be misrepresented Now the fact they discussed the idea of removing the data will also be misrepresented, not to point out a few scientists were not totally honest, but that global warming does not exist.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 13:31:07 GMT
That's an very interesting aside. But ofcourse it was a one off anomaly rather than persistent inaccuracy. It is an aside that has been stated several times on here and the continual rejection of 'one-off anomalies' that pile up in the global warmists dustbins actually raises questions as regards the veracity of the hypothesis. The whole point of having a hypothesis is that when you crunch the numbers it proves the hypothesis. So far there are anomalies all over the place that are either unexplained or correction factored away so as not to cause a problem. No way to settle science. Its because the anomalies do not alter the trend, but are misrepresented as doing so. A scientist may state that flies lay approximately a thousand eggs, that someone knows of a fly that only laid only one egg does not make the first statement a lie. Nor does it mean it would be more accurate to say flies lay between 1 and 1,000 eggs. Such games serve only one purpose to mislead.
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Post by Orac on Jun 28, 2023 13:50:15 GMT
If trimming the evidence to fit your hypothesis is such a well respected part of the scientific method, why the need to hide the emails describing what happened?
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Post by Vinny on Jun 28, 2023 14:01:47 GMT
Good to hear REAL scientists for a change and not bright young things shelf stackers views... Almost all real scientists are convinced of the facts that man made global warming is a reality. But certain clowns think they look intelligent by ignoring them and pretending it is all rubbish The thing is SRB, tax isn't the answer to it. Reforestation is, as well as clean energy.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 28, 2023 14:04:19 GMT
So, as we have ascertained that the countryside is cooler than the city, which our esteemed zany points out because large areas of building hold the heat, how will being over populated and building large amounts of housing in green belt areas lower global warming? When our eminent scientist Zany points out it will make it worse? Now I have spoken. Your eminent scientist Zany can also do some maths. Perhaps you can too. Start with how much of the planet is urbanised, when you have that percent, work out what percentage more of the planet we need to be urbanised to build a million homes in the UK. I think you'll find the result is somewhere around diddly squat. It does not matter how much is urbanised if you feed in false temps to the models then you get false information and the point as regards weather stations is they tend to be close to urban areas and often overtaken by said areas. In fact it was discovered about a dozen years ago that numerous stations were indeed corrupted in this way.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 28, 2023 14:13:42 GMT
The answer is obvious. The scientists concerned were clearly aware of the endless bloggers (Such as Sandypine's source) on the internet who seize on any anomaly that cannot be explained as proof global warming does not exist. They were worried that something they knew to be an anomaly and not a trend would be misrepresented Now the fact they discussed the idea of removing the data will also be misrepresented, not to point out a few scientists were not totally honest, but that global warming does not exist. No one has said it does not exist even the 'endless bloggers'. What they are saying is there are many questions as regards the hypothesis. If you have information that does not fit with the 'trend' then there may be something wrong with the 'trend'. If I had done anything like that during my inspecting and testing times then my jotters would have been in the post. All results mean something even if they are an error in the readings. In science one is supposed to be above board and let one's results do the talking. You support manipulating and withholding information?
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