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Post by zanygame on Jun 10, 2023 16:13:32 GMT
And then when the scientists say its happening you dismiss them as well. I don’t dismiss anything. I have concerns about eco worriers knee jerk dismissal of anyone who doesn’t agree with them . We had it in here , two posters who claimed that gas engineers know nothing about heating systems. The eco worrier agenda has become a quasi religion ..sending out autistic children and old TV sages to spread the message . So you do sign up to the scientific consensus that AGW exists and is a threat to the planet. You are not hiding behind the idea that climate change is just eco warriors? |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2023 16:31:30 GMT
I don’t dismiss anything. I have concerns about eco worriers knee jerk dismissal of anyone who doesn’t agree with them . We had it in here , two posters who claimed that gas engineers know nothing about heating systems. The eco worrier agenda has become a quasi religion ..sending out autistic children and old TV sages to spread the message . So you do sign up to the scientific consensus that AGW exists and is a threat to the planet. You are not hiding behind the idea that climate change is just eco warriors? I’m happy to agree that AGW exists and is a potential threat to the human existence as it is today. Are you hiding behind Eco worrier righteous indignation? If the climate sceptics rolled out a paraplegic child with Down syndrome who declared that Eco worriers were blighting her chances of world travel would you take her seriously ? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 10, 2023 16:53:22 GMT
So you do sign up to the scientific consensus that AGW exists and is a threat to the planet. You are not hiding behind the idea that climate change is just eco warriors? In which case what has Greta said that is wrong. No, just wandering why you think its righteous indignation. Why would she need all those ills for me to listen to her?? I would listen to anyone points. TBH not sure what point you are making. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2023 17:52:24 GMT
In which case what has Greta said that is wrong. No, just wandering why you think its righteous indignation. Why would she need all those ills for me to listen to her?? I would listen to anyone points. TBH not sure what point you are making. I don’t want to hear an emotive argument from a child . I want cold facts. I note that you don’t seem to be able to differentiate between what I said and what she is trying to convince us . Because it is , righteous indignation oozes out of Eco worriers when others question their pontificating. Gretas naivety and Autism is used as a shield against criticism and direct opposition. Don’t pretend otherwise. She doesn’t make points she spouts what she is told . Thunberg has no knowledge of AGW . She hasn’t done research on it, she hasn’t written a paper on it afaik , she doesn’t have any formal qualifications on it. She is about as qualified to speak about AGW as our local postman ..but he’s not a vulnerable child or a bloke in the telly famous for sidling up to gorillas in the wild . |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 10, 2023 18:04:05 GMT
What is important is the effectiveness of the system in heating your house. In the real world it is far simpler matter to get a standard heating system to do this adequately, than arrange for a heat pump to reliably do the job adequately - one pitfall is that a more powerful heat pump system is a lot more expensive than a less powerful one. It is a dark science because what is adequate is not such a simple matter as with a standard system. Yes you can theoretically fit any house with an adequate heat pump system - however, back in reality it doesn't quite work like that - hence significant numbers of people with inadequate systems that do little but make a lot of noise. You have been told by people who have heat pumps that they are quiet, cheap to run and effective at heating a house. Yet still you insist the old ways are better. We're still using the wheel, have you found an alternative? |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2023 18:11:05 GMT
The figures you quote here are (in effect) 'best case scenarios' - there are many cases in which an expensive installation actually appears to waste electricity (or rather, do no better than a heater). It's a bit of a dark science and the overall effectiveness of the system(the measurement that's important) can be disappointing if you take into account the complexity of such installations. A lot of people have ended up with expensive systems that cannot adequately heat their houses and make quite a bit of noise. No they aren't. I've given you a performance range to explain where the average CoP comes from. Nothing best case about it. There is no way an electric heater can ever be more efficient than a heat pump. Even the most poorly installed and commissioned heat pump will have a CoP of 2. An electric heater can never have a CoP higher than 1. Its not a dark science at all, the science is relatively simple. 'Overall Effectiveness' is a little vague so what you mean by that and how you measure it only you can explain. If anyone ends up with a system that cannot adequately heat their home and/or is too noisy then they've bought the wrong system for their needs. You can't blame the tool if you use the wrong tool for the job. Or the wrong job for the tool ..such as older houses . |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 10, 2023 18:22:34 GMT
I don’t want to hear an emotive argument from a child . I want cold facts. I note that you don’t seem to be able to differentiate between what I said and what she is trying to convince us . Because it is , righteous indignation oozes out of Eco worriers when others question their pontificating. Gretas naivety and Autism is used as a shield against criticism and direct opposition. Don’t pretend otherwise. She doesn’t make points she spouts what she is told . No one requires you to listen to her. In my opinion she speaks from the heart, I have watched the BBC interview with her and she seemed pretty gened up to me. But if you want cold hard facts, there are plenty of those available. The problem most seem to have is that unless the facts have already happened they are not proven and so can be dismissed. That a blogger carries as much weight as the IPCC and any contradictions said blogger can find in the science is proof none of it is happening. The reason we have folks like Greta and just stop oil is that for 30 years we sat and did nothing while constantly dismissing the evidence as "not fact." TBH I'm not that bothered if you think she is a mouth piece, many worthy causes have a mouth piece, so what. Paul Ogrady was not a dog expert or a vet but he was happily the mouth piece for Battersea dogs home. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 10, 2023 18:24:27 GMT
No they aren't. I've given you a performance range to explain where the average CoP comes from. Nothing best case about it. There is no way an electric heater can ever be more efficient than a heat pump. Even the most poorly installed and commissioned heat pump will have a CoP of 2. An electric heater can never have a CoP higher than 1. Its not a dark science at all, the science is relatively simple. 'Overall Effectiveness' is a little vague so what you mean by that and how you measure it only you can explain. If anyone ends up with a system that cannot adequately heat their home and/or is too noisy then they've bought the wrong system for their needs. You can't blame the tool if you use the wrong tool for the job. Or the wrong job for the tool ..such as older houses . Still waiting for you to give reason why heat pumps wont work in older houses. Do air conditioning units not work in old houses? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 10, 2023 18:26:08 GMT
People have claimed the old methods are better since they invented the wheel. You have been told by people who have heat pumps that they are quiet, cheap to run and effective at heating a house. Yet still you insist the old ways are better. We're still using the wheel, have you found an alternative? I think you missed the point there. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2023 18:30:49 GMT
I don’t want to hear an emotive argument from a child . I want cold facts. I note that you don’t seem to be able to differentiate between what I said and what she is trying to convince us . Because it is , righteous indignation oozes out of Eco worriers when others question their pontificating. Gretas naivety and Autism is used as a shield against criticism and direct opposition. Don’t pretend otherwise. She doesn’t make points she spouts what she is told . No one requires you to listen to her. In my opinion she speaks from the heart, I have watched the BBC interview with her and she seemed pretty gened up to me. But if you want cold hard facts, there are plenty of those available. The problem most seem to have is that unless the facts have already happened they are not proven and so can be dismissed. That a blogger carries as much weight as the IPCC and any contradictions said blogger can find in the science is proof none of it is happening. The reason we have folks like Greta and just stop oil is that for 30 years we sat and did nothing while constantly dismissing the evidence as "not fact." TBH I'm not that bothered if you think she is a mouth piece, many worthy causes have a mouth piece, so what. Paul Ogrady was not a dog expert or a vet but he was happily the mouth piece for Battersea dogs home. I suspect that you are being deliberately obtuse. If the eco worriers want to be taken seriously by grown ups then they should head up their campaign with scientists qualified on the subject . As long as you and the rest of the eco worriers aren’t bothered about who heads up the campaign then the rest of us won’t be bothered about you. The fact that you compared Paul O Grady and Battersea dog home with Thunberg and AGW pretty much makes my point for me . |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2023 18:32:21 GMT
Or the wrong job for the tool ..such as older houses . Still waiting for you to give reason why heat pumps wont work in older houses. Do air conditioning units not work in old houses? I’ve already told you. Older houses do not have the insulation of new builds . Should I repeat this periodically or will you keep pretending that I didn’t say it ? |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 10, 2023 18:43:24 GMT
We're still using the wheel, have you found an alternative? I think you missed the point there. I think it's you who misses points. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 11, 2023 7:22:51 GMT
No one requires you to listen to her. In my opinion she speaks from the heart, I have watched the BBC interview with her and she seemed pretty gened up to me. But if you want cold hard facts, there are plenty of those available. The problem most seem to have is that unless the facts have already happened they are not proven and so can be dismissed. That a blogger carries as much weight as the IPCC and any contradictions said blogger can find in the science is proof none of it is happening. The reason we have folks like Greta and just stop oil is that for 30 years we sat and did nothing while constantly dismissing the evidence as "not fact." TBH I'm not that bothered if you think she is a mouth piece, many worthy causes have a mouth piece, so what. Paul Ogrady was not a dog expert or a vet but he was happily the mouth piece for Battersea dogs home. I suspect that you are being deliberately obtuse. If the eco worriers want to be taken seriously by grown ups then they should head up their campaign with scientists qualified on the subject . As long as you and the rest of the eco worriers aren’t bothered about who heads up the campaign then the rest of us won’t be bothered about you. The fact that you compared Paul O Grady and Battersea dog home with Thunberg and AGW pretty much makes my point for me . Firstly we only have your opinion that eco warriors don't know their stuff. But mostly this As long as you and the rest of the eco worriers aren’t bothered about who heads up the campaign then the rest of us won’t be bothered about you.You don't get it do you. The race is run, the scientists won, governments recognise AGW and are taking action to slow and stop it. No one needs to convince "The rest of us" you are just being dragged along complaining about stuff they have no knowledge of and no desire to investigate. The only things "The rest of us" looks at is blogs from non scientists that support their views. Why concern yourself with current glacial melt and huge wild fires when you can find a blogger who says temperatures aren't being measured properly at a couple of station because they are to near a building. Why look at the issue of Co2 emissions from vehicles when a blogger can show you a picture of a lithium mine so you can claim batteries are polluting. With no understanding of the difference between local damage to a tiny bit of the environment and global climate change. Perhaps its time "The rest of us" looked at their own representatives. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 11, 2023 7:23:56 GMT
I think you missed the point there. I think it's you who misses points. Did you make any? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 11, 2023 7:25:08 GMT
Still waiting for you to give reason why heat pumps wont work in older houses. Do air conditioning units not work in old houses? I’ve already told you. Older houses do not have the insulation of new builds . Should I repeat this periodically or will you keep pretending that I didn’t say it ? No, but you might want to explain why having less insulation means one type of heating will work and another type of heating wont. |
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