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Post by colbops on Jun 9, 2023 12:18:03 GMT
There is plenty going on in that regard. I was at a meeting with DESNZ last week along with other industry representatives discussing Building Regulations, OFGEM , assurance schemes, and new accreditations to ensure trades are upskilled, deliver reliable systems backed by assurance schemes using alternate technologies appropriately delivered by qualified people. I'll be going to another next month. A few uninformed people on a forum spouting on about the merits (or otherwise) of heat pumps isn't going to change anytime soon if ever, but developers, consultants, contractors and consumers will be in a position to make more informed choices and better decisions before too long. Saying heat pumps are shit is like saying wood is shit. There are lots of different types of wood. Some types of wood might not be suitable for certain applications. Wood might not be the right material for a certain job. The quality from one source might be lower or higher than from another, which might impact where and how it should be used. That doesn't make all wood shit. If you understand wood and how it is graded, you will end up with the right material for your needs and it will do the job it is supposed to. The same logic applies to heat pumps. I said “Heat pumps range from air source ( which are shit for older houses ) to ground source heat pumps ( that are still shit for older houses ).” I never said that they were shit for new builds , in fact I said the opposite . OK there is a much more expansive range than that. individual or centralised. Air to air, air to water, water to water. ground source. High temperature, low temperature the list goes on. I didn't say you said they were shit for new builds. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 9, 2023 15:03:35 GMT
I said “Heat pumps range from air source ( which are shit for older houses ) to ground source heat pumps ( that are still shit for older houses ).” I never said that they were shit for new builds , in fact I said the opposite . OK there is a much more expansive range than that. individual or centralised. Air to air, air to water, water to water. ground source. High temperature, low temperature the list goes on. I didn't say you said they were shit for new builds. Indeed but what is affordable and practical. You could use the same non point on EVs. EV cars can’t be shit because of Teslas . |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 9, 2023 17:09:36 GMT
You wouldn't need radiators at all. I do need radiators. The alternative is a heated Floor or warm air . Both would be expensive and not necessary better. Warm air is what I have and it cost about 3k installed. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 9, 2023 17:10:59 GMT
It's a case of 'buyer beware" The heat pump model works theoretically and sometimes in practice. The direct heater model thing works in all cases. What's the direct heater model? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 9, 2023 17:11:51 GMT
There needs to be some way to disentangle discussion of the merits and otherwise of heat pumps, EVs, solar panels and so forth from the frankly dopey conspiracy theories about Net Zero, the Unelected Dictators of Brussels and their handmaidens in Westminster, and apocalyptic visions of a cold, damp and low-mobility future. There is plenty going on in that regard. I was at a meeting with DESNZ last week along with other industry representatives discussing Building Regulations, OFGEM , assurance schemes, and new accreditations to ensure trades are upskilled, deliver reliable systems backed by assurance schemes using alternate technologies appropriately delivered by qualified people. I'll be going to another next month. A few uninformed people on a forum spouting on about the merits (or otherwise) of heat pumps isn't going to change anytime soon if ever, but developers, consultants, contractors and consumers will be in a position to make more informed choices and better decisions before too long. Saying heat pumps are shit is like saying wood is shit. There are lots of different types of wood. Some types of wood might not be suitable for certain applications. Wood might not be the right material for a certain job. The quality from one source might be lower or higher than from another, which might impact where and how it should be used. That doesn't make all wood shit. If you understand wood and how it is graded, you will end up with the right material for your needs and it will do the job it is supposed to. The same logic applies to heat pumps.
Well not really - wood is not being promoted as the only solution by government diktat. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 9, 2023 17:19:01 GMT
There needs to be some way to disentangle discussion of the merits and otherwise of heat pumps, EVs, solar panels and so forth from the frankly dopey conspiracy theories about Net Zero, the Unelected Dictators of Brussels and their handmaidens in Westminster, and apocalyptic visions of a cold, damp and low-mobility future. There is plenty going on in that regard. I was at a meeting with DESNZ last week along with other industry representatives discussing Building Regulations, OFGEM , assurance schemes, and new accreditations to ensure trades are upskilled, deliver reliable systems backed by assurance schemes using alternate technologies appropriately delivered by qualified people. I'll be going to another next month. A few uninformed people on a forum spouting on about the merits (or otherwise) of heat pumps isn't going to change anytime soon if ever, but developers, consultants, contractors and consumers will be in a position to make more informed choices and better decisions before too long. Saying heat pumps are shit is like saying wood is shit. There are lots of different types of wood. Some types of wood might not be suitable for certain applications. Wood might not be the right material for a certain job. The quality from one source might be lower or higher than from another, which might impact where and how it should be used. That doesn't make all wood shit. If you understand wood and how it is graded, you will end up with the right material for your needs and it will do the job it is supposed to. The same logic applies to heat pumps. Well said. Many people who criticise heat pumps don't even know how they work, let alone what to look for when buying one. Education and information are the answer. |
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Post by Orac on Jun 9, 2023 17:21:03 GMT
It's a case of 'buyer beware" The heat pump model works theoretically and sometimes in practice. The direct heater model thing works in all cases. What's the direct heater model? Rather than using some mechanism to pump heat, you instead just heat something up. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 9, 2023 17:21:07 GMT
I do need radiators. The alternative is a heated Floor or warm air . Both would be expensive and not necessary better. Warm air is what I have and it cost about 3k installed. Why in Earth would I pay 3k to have warm air ducts fitted into my house when I have radiators ? |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 9, 2023 17:24:13 GMT
There is plenty going on in that regard. I was at a meeting with DESNZ last week along with other industry representatives discussing Building Regulations, OFGEM , assurance schemes, and new accreditations to ensure trades are upskilled, deliver reliable systems backed by assurance schemes using alternate technologies appropriately delivered by qualified people. I'll be going to another next month. A few uninformed people on a forum spouting on about the merits (or otherwise) of heat pumps isn't going to change anytime soon if ever, but developers, consultants, contractors and consumers will be in a position to make more informed choices and better decisions before too long. Saying heat pumps are shit is like saying wood is shit. There are lots of different types of wood. Some types of wood might not be suitable for certain applications. Wood might not be the right material for a certain job. The quality from one source might be lower or higher than from another, which might impact where and how it should be used. That doesn't make all wood shit. If you understand wood and how it is graded, you will end up with the right material for your needs and it will do the job it is supposed to. The same logic applies to heat pumps. Well said. Many people who criticise heat pumps don't even know how they work, let alone what to look for when buying one. Education and information are the answer. I’m sure a lot of people who criticise fossil fuel vehicles don’t know how combustion engines work and quite a few EV fans have no idea how the batteries , motors and computers in the vehicle work. |
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roots
Full Member
Posts: 116
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Post by roots on Jun 9, 2023 19:41:44 GMT
How many Kw of electricity do you use/year? On average through the coldest 3 months the 3 combined use about 6kwh per day. Average through the year is about 2.2kwh per day. Just did a reading. In the last 30 days they have used 72kwh. Interesting, what units (make model no) do you use? Is this system the only source of habitable space heating that you use, or is there a backup? Also, how do you heat water for bathin, showers washing-up etc? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 9, 2023 22:42:35 GMT
There needs to be some way to disentangle discussion of the merits and otherwise of heat pumps, EVs, solar panels and so forth from the frankly dopey conspiracy theories about Net Zero, the Unelected Dictators of Brussels and their handmaidens in Westminster, and apocalyptic visions of a cold, damp and low-mobility future. Ok i will jump in hrre if i may On climate change, i have mixed feelings. I am quite certain the people are being fed a significant amount of bullshine and zealotry. I also wonder why all the sources of climate emergency zealotry use 1850 as their starting point when 1760 seems a much more sensible start point for the focus of animal husbandry. I owned an EV for nearly two years. It was a disaster and I am well pleased i dumped it at a profit for a fully 4WD diesel SUV Despite a scientific background and some time being paid to work with people investigating the feasibility of solar power in the past, i genuinely cannot fir the life of me see how heat pumps work. If you sank pipes deep into the ground you might exploit geothermal energy but a documentary on a german village and the utter catastrophe caused by leakage of the fluid into the surrounding rock alarms me. I find manufacturers tales of air source heat pumps akin to tales of perpetual motion machines. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 10, 2023 1:19:36 GMT
I've never had an EV, and never will, I cant afford one. And I say that as someone who drives a proper car, a car that has a beautiful huge diesel V8 under the bonnet, oh it's lovelly. And it doesn't have any EV tech that constantly records my movements.  |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 10, 2023 5:33:35 GMT
I've never had an EV, and never will, I cant afford one. And I say that as someone who drives a proper car, a car that has a beautiful huge diesel V8 under the bonnet, oh it's lovelly. And it doesn't have any EV tech that constantly records my movements. I doubt you’ll get much choice,they plan on driving (excuse the pun) the internal combustion powered off the road. They're already talking about car sharing,not being able to drive on certain days of the week lowering speed limits to cut pollution 🤬of course such inconveniences will only apply to the plebs. As for being tracked the array of anpr cameras do that and the cashless society will see your every move and finances logged,again only the plebs. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 10, 2023 7:07:22 GMT
I've never had an EV, and never will, I cant afford one. And I say that as someone who drives a proper car, a car that has a beautiful huge diesel V8 under the bonnet, oh it's lovelly. And it doesn't have any EV tech that constantly records my movements. To clarify then I lost the most wonderful diesel 2WD SUV ive ever sat behind the wheel of thanks to a twat who has the same attitude to roundabouts and traffic on them that cyclists have to traffic lights Having literally months earlier changed jobs from one requiring me to drive 40k miles a year to one requiring me to drive 30 miles a fortnight i took the plunge and paid FIVE grand for a nine year old Nissan Leaf whose former owners an energy company gad bought it to wave their green credentials as a gay pride dancer waves their dick under the dress. It was an interesting experiment. I already had a home charger having intended to buy the very vehicle, not the model, the actual vehicle, nine years earlier but a change of job then meant it would have been totally impractical to proceed. The car could only be relied upon to do 60 miles in a charge. Motoring became the wild adventure it was in grandad’s day when you hoped to god there was a gallon of petrol in the AA phone box. You dare not run heating let alone aircon and street charging was fir millionaires I sold the car for nearly a quarter more than i paid for it, to a Derbyshire Mercedez Benz dealer who wanted it for the novelty. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 10, 2023 7:22:08 GMT
What's the direct heater model? Rather than using some mechanism to pump heat, you instead just heat something up. OK. Heat pumps work very differently to conventional ones. A conventional fan heater uses electricity to generate heat. A heat pump extracts heat from the air outside, multiplies it and then pumps it inside. Using this method to extract existing heat takes about half the energy of a conventional heater. |
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