|
|
Post by besoeker3 on Jun 5, 2023 13:39:51 GMT
Climate change is increasing. More rapidly in 100 years and even more so in recent years. Evidence? The CO2 is a measurable figure but others don'r think it isn't. So just some observations from me. I am ancient grump. When I was at school we regularly got snow in the winter. Snowball fights were not unusual. Then there was the winter of 1962. The most recent snowfall for us was about 2015. Then there have been record temperatures. The 1976 was a scorcher. Last year we had another - a record 40.3C. It just the records that are important. The temperature has significant risen in my lifetime. Not sure where you live but down in the West Country where snowfall is quite unusual our last fall was in January this year. Last years 'record' temp is quite questionable - at the time people were querying its sudden rapid peak. Putting the measuring station next to an active runway might be a clue. Well, you may think that the record is debatable but I have pointed out several issues that have shown that the climate change has risen in my lifetime. I think that is indisputable. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 5, 2023 16:20:45 GMT
Not sure where you live but down in the West Country where snowfall is quite unusual our last fall was in January this year. Last years 'record' temp is quite questionable - at the time people were querying its sudden rapid peak. Putting the measuring station next to an active runway might be a clue. Well, you may think that the record is debatable but I have pointed out several issues that have shown that the climate change has risen in my lifetime. I think that is indisputable. The official position is in the last 30 years the UK has become 0.9C warmer and 6% wetter. There are many questions with these figures one of which is indicated above by Pacifico. The record temperatures have mostly been recorded at places like Heathrow (surrounded by an ever extending built up area and very active runways) and Cambridge Botanic Gardens where a large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. Gravesend tends to receive London's heat so we know the heat island effect travels. The Met Office now use electronic probes instead of mercury thermometers. The response time is different where probes give immediate results whereas the mercury has a slower response time. So maximum temps recorded by probes are often higher as by the time the mercury repsonds the temp has dropped again and the maximum is never reached. Correction factors are applied by the met office to try to take account of this difference. In Australia one station in Melbourne I think refuses to pass over the comparison information to researchers and it is a station that feeds into the IPCC data. (Nothing to hide?). The temperature change is disputable and is disputed as to its accuracy. I do not think anyone disputes climate changes and we do seem to be in a warming phase however how high that is, how fast it is occurring and why it is occurring are all uncertain. The science is not settled because the figures are nowhere near settled |
|
|
|
Post by besoeker3 on Jun 5, 2023 17:43:40 GMT
Well, you may think that the record is debatable but I have pointed out several issues that have shown that the climate change has risen in my lifetime. I think that is indisputable. The official position is in the last 30 years the UK has become 0.9C warmer and 6% wetter. There are many questions with these figures one of which is indicated above by Pacifico. The record temperatures have mostly been recorded at places like Heathrow (surrounded by an ever extending built up area and very active runways) and Cambridge Botanic Gardens where a large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. Gravesend tends to receive London's heat so we know the heat island effect travels. The Met Office now use electronic probes instead of mercury thermometers. The response time is different where probes give immediate results whereas the mercury has a slower response time. So maximum temps recorded by probes are often higher as by the time the mercury repsonds the temp has dropped again and the maximum is never reached. Correction factors are applied by the met office to try to take account of this difference. In Australia one station in Melbourne I think refuses to pass over the comparison information to researchers and it is a station that feeds into the IPCC data. (Nothing to hide?). The temperature change is disputable and is disputed as to its accuracy. I do not think anyone disputes climate changes and we do seem to be in a warming phase however how high that is, how fast it is occurring and why it is occurring are all uncertain. The science is not settled because the figures are nowhere near settled My observations have been mine.and beyond dispute. |
|
|
|
Post by bancroft on Jun 5, 2023 18:10:58 GMT
With world population increasing and so many coming to Western Europe expecting hot showers and central heating we are never going to reduce our carbon footprint.
Of course they might move the goal posts.
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Jun 5, 2023 18:48:25 GMT
The medieval warm period was not a world wide event. It effected Europe. As such its less easy to predict. But far more importantly is that my example was not an argument for or against AGW. I deliberately chose something that is not important to AGW. No one disputes the earth has been hotter and colder than now, for a hundred different reasons. What matters is why its heating up now. We know the reasons the planet warms, we know why some bits do separately to the main, but very few things can cause the whole planet to warm. There in no doubt that atmospheric Co2 is increasing, so the argument becomes is it Co2 doing the warming or something else. But what else? To increase the whole earths temperature by 1.5c takes trillions of terawatts of energy, its not something like an El Nino can do. So what? That question is the one that must be answered if we are to claim its not Co2. Well herein lies the essence of the problem. We do not know why it heated up in the past just as we do not know why it is heating up now. There are efforts to align C02 as the specific culprit but we can see now that the relationship is uncertain between C02 and increasing temperatures. The temperatures themselves are a bit of a problem as the methods of measuring, the locations of measuring, the correction factors applied and the models generated and their predictions are all at odds with the actual temperature rise recorded. We know that one isolated incident is not proof of planetary warming or proof of planetary warming not occurring. What is worrying is that many 'warmists' use individual events as proof of AGW. Just stop oil spokespeople have referred to the UK's record 40C temp and the Pakistan floods as evidence that AGW is real yet both have questions as to their validity as an indication of a changing climate. Climate scientists now understand that the Medieval Warm Period was caused by an increase in solar radiation and a decrease in volcanic activity, which both promote warming. During the Medieval warm period, an increase in solar radiation and decrease in volcanic eruptions created a La Niña-like event that changed the usual patterns. Stronger trade winds pushing more warm water towards Asia created wetter conditions in Australasia, droughts in the southern US and South and Central America, and heavy rains and flooding in the Pacific Northwest and Canada. theconversation.com/climate-explained-what-was-the-medieval-warm-period-155294 |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Jun 5, 2023 18:55:02 GMT
Well, you may think that the record is debatable but I have pointed out several issues that have shown that the climate change has risen in my lifetime. I think that is indisputable. The official position is in the last 30 years the UK has become 0.9C warmer and 6% wetter. There are many questions with these figures one of which is indicated above by Pacifico. The record temperatures have mostly been recorded at places like Heathrow (surrounded by an ever extending built up area and very active runways) and Cambridge Botanic Gardens where a large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. Gravesend tends to receive London's heat so we know the heat island effect travels. The Met Office now use electronic probes instead of mercury thermometers. The response time is different where probes give immediate results whereas the mercury has a slower response time. So maximum temps recorded by probes are often higher as by the time the mercury repsonds the temp has dropped again and the maximum is never reached. Correction factors are applied by the met office to try to take account of this difference. In Australia one station in Melbourne I think refuses to pass over the comparison information to researchers and it is a station that feeds into the IPCC data. (Nothing to hide?). The temperature change is disputable and is disputed as to its accuracy. I do not think anyone disputes climate changes and we do seem to be in a warming phase however how high that is, how fast it is occurring and why it is occurring are all uncertain. The science is not settled because the figures are nowhere near settled  Cambridge Botanic Gardens with its large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. I think you've lost the plot. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 5, 2023 19:38:46 GMT
The official position is in the last 30 years the UK has become 0.9C warmer and 6% wetter. There are many questions with these figures one of which is indicated above by Pacifico. The record temperatures have mostly been recorded at places like Heathrow (surrounded by an ever extending built up area and very active runways) and Cambridge Botanic Gardens where a large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. Gravesend tends to receive London's heat so we know the heat island effect travels. The Met Office now use electronic probes instead of mercury thermometers. The response time is different where probes give immediate results whereas the mercury has a slower response time. So maximum temps recorded by probes are often higher as by the time the mercury repsonds the temp has dropped again and the maximum is never reached. Correction factors are applied by the met office to try to take account of this difference. In Australia one station in Melbourne I think refuses to pass over the comparison information to researchers and it is a station that feeds into the IPCC data. (Nothing to hide?). The temperature change is disputable and is disputed as to its accuracy. I do not think anyone disputes climate changes and we do seem to be in a warming phase however how high that is, how fast it is occurring and why it is occurring are all uncertain. The science is not settled because the figures are nowhere near settled My observations have been mine.and beyond dispute. So you have observed climate variation in your small neck of the woods. Not really something to base seeking net zero on. There was one very observant climate scientist who way back predicted our children and grandchildren would not know what snow is. My son is now 46, lives in the South and sees snow frequently every winter. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 5, 2023 19:49:56 GMT
The official position is in the last 30 years the UK has become 0.9C warmer and 6% wetter. There are many questions with these figures one of which is indicated above by Pacifico. The record temperatures have mostly been recorded at places like Heathrow (surrounded by an ever extending built up area and very active runways) and Cambridge Botanic Gardens where a large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. Gravesend tends to receive London's heat so we know the heat island effect travels. The Met Office now use electronic probes instead of mercury thermometers. The response time is different where probes give immediate results whereas the mercury has a slower response time. So maximum temps recorded by probes are often higher as by the time the mercury repsonds the temp has dropped again and the maximum is never reached. Correction factors are applied by the met office to try to take account of this difference. In Australia one station in Melbourne I think refuses to pass over the comparison information to researchers and it is a station that feeds into the IPCC data. (Nothing to hide?). The temperature change is disputable and is disputed as to its accuracy. I do not think anyone disputes climate changes and we do seem to be in a warming phase however how high that is, how fast it is occurring and why it is occurring are all uncertain. The science is not settled because the figures are nowhere near settled Cambridge Botanic Gardens with its large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. I think you've lost the plot. I think you are being disingenuous here. Can you see a weather station in the image you have supplied? ![]()  |
|
|
|
Post by besoeker3 on Jun 5, 2023 19:55:53 GMT
My observations have been mine.and beyond dispute. So you have observed climate variation in your small neck of the woods. Not really something to base seeking net zero on. There was one very observant climate scientist who way back predicted our children and grandchildren would not know what snow is. My son is now 46, lives in the South and sees snow frequently every winter. Really?? This four years ago:  |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 5, 2023 20:02:41 GMT
Cambridge Botanic Gardens with its large acreage of glass and concrete as well as gravel pathways are in close proximity. I think you've lost the plot. I think you are being disingenuous here. Can you see a weather station in the image you have supplied? ![]()  Here to help. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Jun 5, 2023 20:12:33 GMT
My observations have been mine.and beyond dispute. So you have observed climate variation in your small neck of the woods. Not really something to base seeking net zero on. There was one very observant climate scientist who way back predicted our children and grandchildren would not know what snow is. My son is now 46, lives in the South and sees snow frequently every winter. Funny how his readings can be dismissed as singular and unimportant yet your cherry picked ones from Heathrow et al are to be considered typical |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Jun 5, 2023 20:16:48 GMT
So a weather station on the grass next to some mud. How can they trust such a thing. 🙄I live in a village outside Cambridge, very rural and I got the same readings. Stop fishing. |
|
|
|
Post by besoeker3 on Jun 5, 2023 20:16:50 GMT
I have already commented on my personal observations including the dog. I do have a snow pictures nine years ago. It lasted two or three days.  |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 5, 2023 20:36:38 GMT
I have already commented on my personal observations including the dog. I do have a snow pictures nine years ago. It lasted two or three days. Which is the point we all still get snow. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 5, 2023 20:40:07 GMT
So you have observed climate variation in your small neck of the woods. Not really something to base seeking net zero on. There was one very observant climate scientist who way back predicted our children and grandchildren would not know what snow is. My son is now 46, lives in the South and sees snow frequently every winter. Funny how his readings can be dismissed as singular and unimportant yet your cherry picked ones from Heathrow et al are to be considered typical Typical?I took official recorded temps that feed into the IPCC data and have stood as the highest UK temp a few years ago. Are local observations by individuals based on equipment traceable to national standards? |
|
