Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 19:05:41 GMT
Have you tried using public services recently? Nothing works in this fucking country anymore due to funding cuts. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 19:13:34 GMT
SRB, The real trouble with the LVT (land value tax) proposal is a political one. It's not that it is unworkable or politically impossible to implement, but that its benefits appear untraceably in the broad health of the economy rather than in some traceable gift given by a benefactor. How do you convince people to keep the tax when it looks to all the world like its benefits are coming from elsewhere (indeed from everywhere else)? To have and keep an LVT, you would need an economically literate population. That's a very unlikely circumstance given the size of the vested interest involved. For them to win all that's needed is to keep people dumb. For us to win, we would need a miracle. As always, the powers that be rely on people staying dumb and stupid enough to be told what to think and who to emote against by those who control the media propaganda sheets they so love. This is not a problem limited to any potential for a Land Value Tax only, but is system-wide and politics-wide. Some of the more intellectually challenged serial Daily Mail linkers around here will be along soon to call me an idiot for highlighting their idiocy. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 19:14:32 GMT
Have you tried using public services recently? Nothing works in this fucking country anymore due to funding cuts. Its like living in Bolivia. |
|
|
|
Post by patman post on May 30, 2023 19:43:51 GMT
If companies lease or rent land and buildings they occupy and do business from, who pays what tax?
Corporations will go to where it's best for their bottom line. Countries and states will adjust their company law and tax rules to attract business and generating income.
For instance, there are reasons why over 65% of Fortune 500 companies and over half of all US publicly traded companies are incorporated in Delaware — friendly company law and tax regime...
Any modest tax on land value or high worth properties would of course be charged to the owners of that land or property. Those who lease it out to others of course may choose to pass these costs onto their tenants if they can. Though of course we could exempt land that is in productive use for farming as well as commercial properties leased to productive businesses. And also directly owned land or commercial property used for such purposes. Such exemptions are at least options for consideration. But what constitutes a full farming business, and what constitutes a wealthy estate with a couple of cows in a field somewhere just to avoid the tax would need to be very carefully defined, because there would be potential loopholes aplenty. This is why - although it makes much more sense if we are going to tax wealth at all to tax those parts of it which cannot physically be removed from the country or hidden - such a land value tax needs deeper expert consideration than any of us on here are capable of. If you think a land value tax is a non-starter, what better alternatives for taxing wealth do you think we should adopt instead? And if you think we shouldn't be taxing wealth at all, why not? And what alternative means of raising the necessary revenues to fix broken Britain would you suggest? Are you suggesting that if the government cannot get the tax from companies it thinks it should, their landlords should be taxed on the income of their tenants…? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 19:56:42 GMT
Any modest tax on land value or high worth properties would of course be charged to the owners of that land or property. Those who lease it out to others of course may choose to pass these costs onto their tenants if they can. Though of course we could exempt land that is in productive use for farming as well as commercial properties leased to productive businesses. And also directly owned land or commercial property used for such purposes. Such exemptions are at least options for consideration. But what constitutes a full farming business, and what constitutes a wealthy estate with a couple of cows in a field somewhere just to avoid the tax would need to be very carefully defined, because there would be potential loopholes aplenty. This is why - although it makes much more sense if we are going to tax wealth at all to tax those parts of it which cannot physically be removed from the country or hidden - such a land value tax needs deeper expert consideration than any of us on here are capable of. If you think a land value tax is a non-starter, what better alternatives for taxing wealth do you think we should adopt instead? And if you think we shouldn't be taxing wealth at all, why not? And what alternative means of raising the necessary revenues to fix broken Britain would you suggest? Are you suggesting that if the government cannot get the tax from companies it thinks it should, their landlords should be taxed on the income of their tenants…? No, I am saying that as land and property have become the major target of investors in ways that are largely detrimental to our own people, we should tax these investments more to encourage more beneficial investments, support public services, and reduce taxes on productive workers |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 20:07:43 GMT
Are you suggesting that if the government cannot get the tax from companies it thinks it should, their landlords should be taxed on the income of their tenants…? No, I am saying that as land and property have become the major target of investors in ways that are largely detrimental to our own people, we should tax these investments more to encourage more beneficial investments, support public services, and reduce taxes on productive workers hear hear. |
|
|
|
Post by patman post on May 30, 2023 20:11:04 GMT
Are you suggesting that if the government cannot get the tax from companies it thinks it should, their landlords should be taxed on the income of their tenants…? No, I am saying that as land and property have become the major target of investors in ways that are largely detrimental to our own people, we should tax these investments more to encourage more beneficial investments, support public services, and reduce taxes on productive workers I think land banks should be taxed while they’re lying idle and not being developed. I also think empty and under occupied properties should be liable to extra tax, and any capital gain from buying and selling a property should be taxed. An additional aim for these taxes is that the attraction of speculation in areas might be lessened where the general population could benefit if more building land was used, and residential property would be inhabited, and property prices might be kept lower… |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 20:13:29 GMT
No, I am saying that as land and property have become the major target of investors in ways that are largely detrimental to our own people, we should tax these investments more to encourage more beneficial investments, support public services, and reduce taxes on productive workers I think land banks should be taxed while they’re lying idle and not being developed. I also think empty and under occupied properties should be liable to extra tax, and any capital gain from buying and selling a property should be taxed. An additional aim for these taxes is that the attraction of speculation in areas might be lessened where the general population could benefit if more building land was used, and residential property would be inhabited, and property prices might be kept lower… How about acres of land used for nothing at all, bought just because someone has so much money they don't know what to do with it. |
|
|
|
Post by patman post on May 30, 2023 20:22:04 GMT
I think land banks should be taxed while they’re lying idle and not being developed. I also think empty and under occupied properties should be liable to extra tax, and any capital gain from buying and selling a property should be taxed. An additional aim for these taxes is that the attraction of speculation in areas might be lessened where the general population could benefit if more building land was used, and residential property would be inhabited, and property prices might be kept lower… How about acres of land used for nothing at all, bought just because someone has so much money they don't know what to do with it. Surely that must depend on where it is, what its current state is, what it could be designated for, and what its market value is. Do you think there’s much such land around…? |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on May 30, 2023 20:36:22 GMT
Typically LVT is presented as a replacement for current taxation, not as an addition. Lol you tell them legitimately there is no need to tax themselves even more with a plan and immediately they try and find ways of doing so.Hilarious. You need more than a miracle. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 20:37:03 GMT
How about acres of land used for nothing at all, bought just because someone has so much money they don't know what to do with it. Surely that must depend on where it is, what its current state is, what it could be designated for, and what its market value is. Do you think there’s much such land around…? I know people who have bought acres of beautiful coastline. Acres of fields, but its not about taking the land out of use, its about tying up huge chunks of money that are not invested in growth of anything but just lie dead and unused. I know a guy who owns the top 4 floors of 5 blocks of flats in London that just stand empty. He doesn't want to let them its just somewhere to keep his money. People think that the rich invest their money, but the really rich ones don't, that money is lost |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on May 30, 2023 20:59:14 GMT
Yes - because land is a finite, particular and irreplaceable resource and is necessary for all production, this type of holding essentially acts against production - ie acts to raise production costs and reduce profits on productive activity. After a suitable period, when the rest of the community have added enough work and infrastructure around his site to make it more valuable, the holder will sell it on, taking a return proportional (more or less) to the economic damage he has inflicted.
If there were a non disruptive way to stop this poverty inducing parasitism (essentially a loophole in the land tenure system), we wouldn't need a gigantic tax budget and we could stop arranging our political life around pushing that dumb needle back and forth
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on May 30, 2023 21:20:15 GMT
I'm not totally against an LVT but how much do you want to raise the tax burden by?. We currently have the highest tax burden since WW2 and instead of keeping increasing it why not look at cutting the vast amount of public spending?. For example we have a desperate shortage of workers and yet we have 5 million on out-of-work welfare handouts - we have created a welfare system where in many cases it pays not to work. Instead of simply increasing taxation to expand public spending how about reforming the system to reduce the demand on public spending? We still fall behind many in Europe Our tax burden reflects the amount the NHS costs, I have never received a satisfactory answer from you as to what services you would cut beyond the microscopic saving on diversity managers and rainbow crossings. Sorry I thought I had made it clear - I believe the NHS is beyond saving (after all we have been trying for over 7 decades) so I would become more European. I recommend you try it. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on May 30, 2023 21:26:27 GMT
I'm not totally against an LVT but how much do you want to raise the tax burden by?. We currently have the highest tax burden since WW2 and instead of keeping increasing it why not look at cutting the vast amount of public spending?. For example we have a desperate shortage of workers and yet we have 5 million on out-of-work welfare handouts - we have created a welfare system where in many cases it pays not to work. Instead of simply increasing taxation to expand public spending how about reforming the system to reduce the demand on public spending? The problem with cutting public spending is that it has already been slashed to the bone in the years of austerity - to the point where nothing seems to work anymore - and yet the national debt remains at record levels and is indeed much larger whilst our tax burden is higher than at any time since the war. Is it not legitimate to wonder where all the bloody money is going? It is very legitimate - which is why I wonder why throwing more money at failing institutions is going to change anything. I'd support a re-balancing of the tax regime but I'm not convinced that higher taxes just to throw money at government departments that are already failing is a wise move. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on May 30, 2023 21:27:58 GMT
Have you tried using public services recently? Nothing works in this fucking country anymore due to funding cuts. yet we are spending more than ever.. |
|
