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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 8:33:34 GMT
Good news if true, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by wapentake on May 29, 2023 8:41:48 GMT
Good news if true, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Yes and No I think I understand your reasoning but ambulance personnel aren’t happy and mental health services have been the Cinderella of the NHS for decades. Many people in the UK suffer some sort of mental health problems in their lives and the results for both them and others can be disastrous. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 8:47:05 GMT
Yes but the police have been used to plug the gaps for far too long. Mental illness isn't a crime and the police aren't trained to deal with it.
And nor should they be.
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Post by wapentake on May 29, 2023 9:24:13 GMT
Yes but the police have been used to plug the gaps for far too long. Mental illness isn't a crime and the police aren't trained to deal with it. And nor should they be. I totally agree they should only be involved should it turn physical. However this will leave a massive gap and associated risks,the services to cope just aren’t there and the few that exist are lamentable,like so many things it’s been shoved out to the private sector who see these people not as human beings but an income stream. This all comes around to the provision of essential services which imo should never be in the private sector,if we want such services we need to accept that tax needs to be higher. That of course relies it not being wasted by incompetents at Westminster. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 9:33:26 GMT
Hmmm... Complicated.
I agree that mental health is probably the most woefully underfunded public sector. But... The destructive policies that make it so have been pursued over multiple decades by governments of both colours.
How you unwind that is another question. But sending the police in to put the strong arm on mentally ill people is not the solution - it's a stop gap that's been abused by other agencies for far too long.
I am glad to see Mark Rowley taking steps to end that situation. Whether he'll succeed is another matter.
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Post by wapentake on May 29, 2023 9:53:04 GMT
Close to two decades ago and trying to support someone who’d had mental health problems for pretty much most of their lives and going in to a downward spiral through lack of any mental health services ( constant cancelling of appointments) it came to a head and the ambulance services called in the police,it was no big deal physically but the cops were marvellous.
Reached A+E and spoke to the A+E consultant who said don’t quote me but you’ll be here a long time get nothing but some tablets prescribed and be sent away,his words were prophetic.
The psychiatric consultant did appear hours later with some tablets and when I asked about further treatment for the individual they laughed,it’s the closest I’ve come to punching a health professional though I left them in no doubt verbally of their treatment of another human being.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 9:58:46 GMT
Close to two decades ago and trying to support someone who’d had mental health problems for pretty much most of their lives and going in to a downward spiral through lack of any mental health services ( constant cancelling of appointments) it came to a head and the ambulance services called in the police,it was no big deal physically but the cops were marvellous. Reached A+E and spoke to the A+E consultant who said don’t quote me but you’ll be here a long time get nothing but some tablets prescribed and be sent away,his words were prophetic. The psychiatric consultant did appear hours later with some tablets and when I asked about further treatment for the individual they laughed,it’s the closest I’ve come to punching a health professional though I left them in no doubt verbally of their treatment of another human being.
It's not much different now I'm afraid. Which is why the police end up picking up the pieces.
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Post by Pacifico on May 29, 2023 11:19:21 GMT
Yes but the police have been used to plug the gaps for far too long. Mental illness isn't a crime and the police aren't trained to deal with it. And nor should they be. I totally agree they should only be involved should it turn physical. However this will leave a massive gap and associated risks, the services to cope just aren’t there and the few that exist are lamentable,like so many things it’s been shoved out to the private sector who see these people not as human beings but an income stream. Which came first, the cart or the horse?. Perhaps the realization that the Police would turn up to incidents allowed the NHS to avoid funding those services that they should have been running. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 16:26:06 GMT
I totally agree they should only be involved should it turn physical. However this will leave a massive gap and associated risks, the services to cope just aren’t there and the few that exist are lamentable,like so many things it’s been shoved out to the private sector who see these people not as human beings but an income stream. Which came first, the cart or the horse?. Perhaps the realization that the Police would turn up to incidents allowed the NHS to avoid funding those services that they should have been running. And that's exactly what has been happening.
It's the same reason that the police resisted having defribrillators in their cars - because the ambulance service would use it as an excuse not to attend medical emergencies.
The police should police and not plug the gaps in other services.
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Post by Toreador on May 29, 2023 16:38:43 GMT
Which came first, the cart or the horse?. Perhaps the realization that the Police would turn up to incidents allowed the NHS to avoid funding those services that they should have been running. And that's exactly what has been happening.
It's the same reason that the police resisted having defribrillators in their cars - because the ambulance service would use it as an excuse not to attend medical emergencies.
The police should police and not plug the gaps in other services.
It's even worse than you thing. For years people have been phoning the police and fire brigade for medical emergencies. |
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Post by wapentake on May 29, 2023 16:45:36 GMT
I totally agree they should only be involved should it turn physical. However this will leave a massive gap and associated risks, the services to cope just aren’t there and the few that exist are lamentable,like so many things it’s been shoved out to the private sector who see these people not as human beings but an income stream. Which came first, the cart or the horse?. Perhaps the realization that the Police would turn up to incidents allowed the NHS to avoid funding those services that they should have been running. Like I said the mental health services have been the Cinderella for decades and through many administrations of different colours,it’s like energy and so much else short termism rules the day instead of the good of the country. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 16:53:50 GMT
And that's exactly what has been happening.
It's the same reason that the police resisted having defribrillators in their cars - because the ambulance service would use it as an excuse not to attend medical emergencies.
The police should police and not plug the gaps in other services.
It's even worse than you thing. For years people have been phoning the police and fire brigade for medical emergencies. Oh trust me, I'm well aware. |
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Post by jonksy on May 29, 2023 18:14:53 GMT
It's even worse than you thing. For years people have been phoning the police and fire brigade for medical emergencies. Oh trust me, I'm well aware. Wasn't it thatcher who closed down all the mental hospitals and then threw the patients onto the streets and renamed it care in the community. What a frigging joke. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 29, 2023 18:17:18 GMT
Oh trust me, I'm well aware. Wasn't it thatcher who closed down all the mental hospitals and then threw the patients onto the streets and renamed it care in the community. What a frigging joke. Yep. And then subsequently three Labour governments (who criticised the policy heavily) continued with exactly the same.
As has every government since (and will probably continue to do so).
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Post by jonksy on May 29, 2023 18:32:17 GMT
Wasn't it thatcher who closed down all the mental hospitals and then threw the patients onto the streets and renamed it care in the community. What a frigging joke. Yep. And then subsequently three Labour governments (who criticised the policy heavily) continued with exactly the same.
As has every government since (and will probably continue to do so).
It's a National scandal mate. |
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