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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2023 12:03:08 GMT
Strange thing to say. Quite obviously I 'disbelieved' all three. And since the referendum was seven years ago and the government are still paying pensions, there was no post referendum emergency budget and the economy didn't tank after the referendum as the prime minister, the chancellor and the govenor of the BoE predicted, history would suggest I was right not to believe them. Don't you agree? The Pension issue was a real enough issue, and was addressed as part of Boris's Withdrawal Agreement. However, I remember some on here at the time recommending that we left without a deal... The point being Andrew, just before the referendum Cameron used it as scare story to frighten pensioners who are a well known pro Brexit demographic into voting remain, and it didn't work.
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Post by Toreador on Jun 4, 2023 12:34:33 GMT
Oh ffs behave yourself. Cameron lied, Osborne lied and the govenor of the BoE lied, just three of many. And you're sitting there making excuses for them. Tell me, what in your opinion were the lies Brexiteers told... Are you claiming that you believed all three and still voted Leave? I'd suggest many voted leave because the knew Cameron, Osborne and others were lying. I hope you don't make any more mistakes today.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 4, 2023 13:21:35 GMT
The Pension issue was a real enough issue, and was addressed as part of Boris's Withdrawal Agreement. However, I remember some on here at the time recommending that we left without a deal... The point being Andrew, just before the referendum Cameron used it as scare story to frighten pensioners who are a well known pro Brexit demographic into voting remain, and it didn't work. Except if we'd have left without say deal then there was a problem with the pensions, as Cameron said. If we'd have left without a deal, they would have been screwed. He wasn't lying.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2023 13:26:52 GMT
The point being Andrew, just before the referendum Cameron used it as scare story to frighten pensioners who are a well known pro Brexit demographic into voting remain, and it didn't work. Except if we'd have left without say deal then there was a problem with the pensions, as Cameron said. If we'd have left without a deal, they would have been screwed. He wasn't lying. Well OK, lets be generous and say Cameron was economical with the truth. Unlike Osborne and Carney who both lied through their teeth.
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Post by jonksy on Jun 4, 2023 13:30:17 GMT
Except if we'd have left without say deal then there was a problem with the pensions, as Cameron said. If we'd have left without a deal, they would have been screwed. He wasn't lying. Well OK, lets be generous and say Cameron was economical with the truth. Unlike Osborne and Carney who both lied through their teeth. Will these remnants ever accept that people with working braincells chose to leave their beloved EUSSR? Hash and Co are stuck with it
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2023 13:35:05 GMT
Well OK, lets be generous and say Cameron was economical with the truth. Unlike Osborne and Carney who both lied through their teeth. Will these remnants ever accept that people with working braincells chose to leave their beloved EUSSR? Hash and Co are stuck with it In short Jonksy, no. They will never accept Brexit, they are diametrically opposed to Brexit. Most of them don't really know why, it's just a left wing hobby horse they must jump on. Btw, like the avatar.
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Post by jonksy on Jun 4, 2023 13:45:25 GMT
Will these remnants ever accept that people with working braincells chose to leave their beloved EUSSR? Hash and Co are stuck with it In short Jonksy, no. They will never accept Brexit, they are diametrically opposed to Brexit. Most of them don't really know why, it's just a left wing hobby horse they must jump on. Btw, like the avatar. We are on the Paignton seafront at the mo mate watching Torbay airshow. Some idiot tried to walk in with his Little blue and yellow flag and one of the Security guards told him either dump his form of protest or fuck off. So the idiot left with his tail between his legs. That saved him from having it rammed where the sun don't shine. BTW its 35 on the front today. Kind of warm lol.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2023 13:55:14 GMT
In short Jonksy, no. They will never accept Brexit, they are diametrically opposed to Brexit. Most of them don't really know why, it's just a left wing hobby horse they must jump on. Btw, like the avatar. We are on the Paignton seafront at the mo mate watching Torbay airshow. Some idiot tried to walk in with his Little blue and yellow flag and one of the Security guards told him either dump his form of protest or fuck off. So the idiot left with his tail between his legs. That saved him from having it rammed where the sun don't shine. BTW its 35 on the front today. Kind of warm lol. Excellent, sounds lovely. Here at Rackham Towers it's sunny but only about 20c, doesn't stop Mrs R disappearing into the undergrowth though. Have a nice day.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 4, 2023 14:05:29 GMT
In short Jonksy, no. They will never accept Brexit, they are diametrically opposed to Brexit. Most of them don't really know why, it's just a left wing hobby horse they must jump on. Btw, like the avatar. We are on the Paignton seafront at the mo mate watching Torbay airshow. Some idiot tried to walk in with his Little blue and yellow flag and one of the Security guards told him either dump his form of protest or fuck off. So the idiot left with his tail between his legs. That saved him from having it rammed where the sun don't shine. BTW its 35 on the front today. Kind of warm lol. The only place that hot round here is my greenhouse. I have finally cleared the large patio outside the back door of 3 years of uncontrolled weed growth thanks to me being too ill to rectify the problem and i’m sitting in 25 degree shade contemplating which of the badger brewers beers to quaff…. Happy sunbathing
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Post by jonksy on Jun 4, 2023 15:02:30 GMT
We are on the Paignton seafront at the mo mate watching Torbay airshow. Some idiot tried to walk in with his Little blue and yellow flag and one of the Security guards told him either dump his form of protest or fuck off. So the idiot left with his tail between his legs. That saved him from having it rammed where the sun don't shine. BTW its 35 on the front today. Kind of warm lol. The only place that hot round here is my greenhouse. I have finally cleared the large patio outside the back door of 3 years of uncontrolled weed growth thanks to me being too ill to rectify the problem and i’m sitting in 25 degree shade contemplating which of the badger brewers beers to quaff…. Happy sunbathing Enjoy your beer mate.
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 5, 2023 4:28:41 GMT
You're not really interested in the environment and the cost to the taxpayer the CAP had on the UK are you? You are saying the solution is to put UK farmers out of business. That would create a big increase in wilding. You haven't even mentioned the lack of a working environmental plan to replace the ones offered under the cap. Do you even know what they are? I quite like the idea of converting some of our arable land back to areas the public can access and enjoy, and that takes pressure off nature as well. But I do think those farmers who would lose their livelihood and the land they paid a fortune for should get some compensation. I don't think you know much about the Australian trade deal other than what sensationalist headlines you've read. Can you explain what evidence you have that UK farmers will go out of business? The trade deal the UK has with Australia is overly protectionist - our government are still in EU mode. Yet, you believe as of May 31st 2023 UK farmers will start going out of business. The UK retained protections in the trade deal run 14 pages deep against Australia's 1 and a half pages, and of course still runs protections in agriculture. Yet, even with 12% tariffs on Australian beef and tonnage quotas in this deal lasting eleven 11 years, you still believe UK farmers will go out of business. You don't seem to have confidence in UK agriculture if that's what you believe. Only after 15 years will UK consumers be able to buy as much beef tariff free as they presently import from Ireland. The only losers here are UK consumers. There are sizeable tariffs on many agri-goods imported from Australia in this deal: from wheat to dairy, sugar to barley, beef to sheep meat, not forgetting fruit and veg. The main beneficiaries of this deal, are heavily subsidised EU farmers. UK farmers are protected too. UK farmers cannot produce sufficient food for the population though. Yet, in the deal the UK has with the EU, the EU has no tariffs or quotas and the UK's market was completely opened up to EU farmers. There was no protection for UK farmers in this deal. Yet there is in the deal with Australian farmers. Again, the only losers here are UK consumers. 50 years of protectionism under the EU did not improve the agricultural industry in the UK. There's been no encouragement to improve productivity because of this. Some UK farms still need subsidising and even some farms still run at a loss. Australian farmers get no subsidy from their government and still make it a viable business. Under the EU's CAP there was huge wastage of agri-food, farmers in the EU represent 3% of the working population, yet receive 30% of the EU's annual budget for the taxpayer. A whopping percentage for such an unproductive industry. Let's not forget, a lot of this money goes to landed gentry and is also ploughed into environmental killing mega-farms. The UK trade deal with Australia wasn't liberal enough. Protections still remain in place and won't be phased out for years to come. If UK farmers really believe like you do they will be out of business before then, well they're in the wrong business.
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Post by Toreador on Jun 5, 2023 5:29:37 GMT
You are saying the solution is to put UK farmers out of business. That would create a big increase in wilding. You haven't even mentioned the lack of a working environmental plan to replace the ones offered under the cap. Do you even know what they are? I quite like the idea of converting some of our arable land back to areas the public can access and enjoy, and that takes pressure off nature as well. But I do think those farmers who would lose their livelihood and the land they paid a fortune for should get some compensation. I don't think you know much about the Australian trade deal other than what sensationalist headlines you've read. Can you explain what evidence you have that UK farmers will go out of business? The trade deal the UK has with Australia is overly protectionist - our government are still in EU mode. Yet, you believe as of May 31st 2023 UK farmers will start going out of business. The UK retained protections in the trade deal run 14 pages deep against Australia's 1 and a half pages, and of course still runs protections in agriculture. Yet, even with 12% tariffs on Australian beef and tonnage quotas in this deal lasting eleven 11 years, you still believe UK farmers will go out of business. You don't seem to have confidence in UK agriculture if that's what you believe. Only after 15 years will UK consumers be able to buy as much beef tariff free as they presently import from Ireland. The only losers here are UK consumers. The are sizeable tariffs on many agri-goods imported from Australia in this deal: from wheat to dairy, sugar to barley, beef to sheep meat, not forgetting fruit and veg. The main beneficiaries of this deal, are heavily subsidised EU farmers. UK farmers are protected too. UK farmers cannot produce sufficient food for the population though. Yet, in the deal the UK has with the EU, the EU has no tariffs or quotas and the UK's market was completely opened up to EU farmers. There was no protection for UK farmers in this deal. Yet there is in the deal with Australian farmers. Again, the only losers here are UK consumers. 50 years of protectionism under the EU did not improve the agricultural industry in the UK. There's been no encouragement to improve productivity because of this. Some UK farms still need subsidising and even some farms still run at a loss. Australian farmers get no subsidy from their government and still make it a viable business. Under the EU's CAP there was huge wastage of agri-food, farmers in the EU represent 3% of the working population, yet receive 30% of the EU's annual budget for the taxpayer. A whopping percentage for such an unproductive industry. Let's not forget, a lot of this money goes to landed gentry and is also ploughed into environmental killing mega-farms. The UK trade deal with Australia wasn't liberal enough. Protections still remain in place and won't be phased out for years to come. If UK farmers really believe like you do they will be out of business before then, well they're in the wrong business. But the reality of your worrying stems from 'project fear' which is firmly implanted in the back of your skull. Well argued Buccy. I live in the northern Lincolnshire sticks and farmers are doing well here.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 5, 2023 5:37:24 GMT
You are saying the solution is to put UK farmers out of business. That would create a big increase in wilding. You haven't even mentioned the lack of a working environmental plan to replace the ones offered under the cap. Do you even know what they are? I quite like the idea of converting some of our arable land back to areas the public can access and enjoy, and that takes pressure off nature as well. But I do think those farmers who would lose their livelihood and the land they paid a fortune for should get some compensation. I don't think you know much about the Australian trade deal other than what sensationalist headlines you've read. Can you explain what evidence you have that UK farmers will go out of business? The trade deal the UK has with Australia is overly protectionist - our government are still in EU mode. Yet, you believe as of May 31st 2023 UK farmers will start going out of business. The UK retained protections in the trade deal run 14 pages deep against Australia's 1 and a half pages, and of course still runs protections in agriculture. Yet, even with 12% tariffs on Australian beef and tonnage quotas in this deal lasting eleven 11 years, you still believe UK farmers will go out of business. You don't seem to have confidence in UK agriculture if that's what you believe. Only after 15 years will UK consumers be able to buy as much beef tariff free as they presently import from Ireland. The only losers here are UK consumers. The are sizeable tariffs on many agri-goods imported from Australia in this deal: from wheat to dairy, sugar to barley, beef to sheep meat, not forgetting fruit and veg. The main beneficiaries of this deal, are heavily subsidised EU farmers. UK farmers are protected too. UK farmers cannot produce sufficient food for the population though. Yet, in the deal the UK has with the EU, the EU has no tariffs or quotas and the UK's market was completely opened up to EU farmers. There was no protection for UK farmers in this deal. Yet there is in the deal with Australian farmers. Again, the only losers here are UK consumers. 50 years of protectionism under the EU did not improve the agricultural industry in the UK. There's been no encouragement to improve productivity because of this. Some UK farms still need subsidising and even some farms still run at a loss. Australian farmers get no subsidy from their government and still make it a viable business. Under the EU's CAP there was huge wastage of agri-food, farmers in the EU represent 3% of the working population, yet receive 30% of the EU's annual budget for the taxpayer. A whopping percentage for such an unproductive industry. Let's not forget, a lot of this money goes to landed gentry and is also ploughed into environmental killing mega-farms. The UK trade deal with Australia wasn't liberal enough. Protections still remain in place and won't be phased out for years to come. If UK farmers really believe like you do they will be out of business before then, well they're in the wrong business. But the reality of your worrying stems from 'project fear' which is firmly implanted in the back of your skull. There are differences between farming in crowded UK and sparsely populated Australia. That you imply the differences are due to with productivity is wrong. UK farmers are some of the most efficient in the world. Anyway I was not talking about the deal the UK government did with Australia, but your claim that the CAP was bad news for consumers and that tariffs should be scrapped. You offer no alternative, just criticism of the current system. So I put it to you again, if you want to remove food import tariffs why not do the same for every product the British public could buy cheaper from abroad. I suggest the reason is that the only way we could achieve your goal would be to lower our standard of living to that of India or Africa in a race to the bottom. You talk of protectionism without apparently understanding what it means. It does not mean wads of money in producers pockets, it means being able to maintain safety standards, health, pensions etc. Things we in Europe enjoy and are unheard of in many countries. Now with that in mind, I do not object to your idea of importing more food to reduce some prices and free up UK land, but lets not pretend it wont have consequences for farmers here.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 5, 2023 6:56:21 GMT
I don't think you know much about the Australian trade deal other than what sensationalist headlines you've read. Can you explain what evidence you have that UK farmers will go out of business? The trade deal the UK has with Australia is overly protectionist - our government are still in EU mode. Yet, you believe as of May 31st 2023 UK farmers will start going out of business. The UK retained protections in the trade deal run 14 pages deep against Australia's 1 and a half pages, and of course still runs protections in agriculture. Yet, even with 12% tariffs on Australian beef and tonnage quotas in this deal lasting eleven 11 years, you still believe UK farmers will go out of business. You don't seem to have confidence in UK agriculture if that's what you believe. Only after 15 years will UK consumers be able to buy as much beef tariff free as they presently import from Ireland. The only losers here are UK consumers. The are sizeable tariffs on many agri-goods imported from Australia in this deal: from wheat to dairy, sugar to barley, beef to sheep meat, not forgetting fruit and veg. The main beneficiaries of this deal, are heavily subsidised EU farmers. UK farmers are protected too. UK farmers cannot produce sufficient food for the population though. Yet, in the deal the UK has with the EU, the EU has no tariffs or quotas and the UK's market was completely opened up to EU farmers. There was no protection for UK farmers in this deal. Yet there is in the deal with Australian farmers. Again, the only losers here are UK consumers. 50 years of protectionism under the EU did not improve the agricultural industry in the UK. There's been no encouragement to improve productivity because of this. Some UK farms still need subsidising and even some farms still run at a loss. Australian farmers get no subsidy from their government and still make it a viable business. Under the EU's CAP there was huge wastage of agri-food, farmers in the EU represent 3% of the working population, yet receive 30% of the EU's annual budget for the taxpayer. A whopping percentage for such an unproductive industry. Let's not forget, a lot of this money goes to landed gentry and is also ploughed into environmental killing mega-farms. The UK trade deal with Australia wasn't liberal enough. Protections still remain in place and won't be phased out for years to come. If UK farmers really believe like you do they will be out of business before then, well they're in the wrong business. But the reality of your worrying stems from 'project fear' which is firmly implanted in the back of your skull. There are differences between farming in crowded UK and sparsely populated Australia. That you imply the differences are due to with productivity is wrong. UK farmers are some of the most efficient in the world. Anyway I was not talking about the deal the UK government did with Australia, but your claim that the CAP was bad news for consumers and that tariffs should be scrapped. You offer no alternative, just criticism of the current system. So I put it to you again, if you want to remove food import tariffs why not do the same for every product the British public could buy cheaper from abroad. I suggest the reason is that the only way we could achieve your goal would be to lower our standard of living to that of India or Africa in a race to the bottom.
You talk of protectionism without apparently understanding what it means. It does not mean wads of money in producers pockets, it means being able to maintain safety standards, health, pensions etc. Things we in Europe enjoy and are unheard of in many countries. Now with that in mind, I do not object to your idea of importing more food to reduce some prices and free up UK land, but lets not pretend it wont have consequences for farmers here. How does lowering the cost of living and making everyone better off mean that we end up like Africa?. And if protectionism is such a good deal for the UK worker why are you in favour of joining the EU where the whole of Europe had free access to our markets?
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Post by thomas on Jun 5, 2023 7:02:38 GMT
another brexit bad story....
But Ms Starkey, sales director for the farm, said the business has been "squashed at both ends", with rising wages for pickers meeting inadequate prices from buyers.
She said traditionally they would use up to 140 pickers, mostly from the EU.
"Many of them had come to us for years, they knew it was a good place to work," Ms Starkey said.
"But with Brexit it became more difficult and they just did not feel welcome."
The farm then used agency workers from further afield but the costs had soared.
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