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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 5:45:15 GMT
Is it right for a 'citizen' of this country to attempt, using a position of power, to avoid paying a speeding fine? No. Did that happen? That's why we need an inquiry, to find out what did happen. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 5:46:30 GMT
I've now caught up with the thread and think that Braverman has no case to answer, she paid the fine rather than faff about with a course where she would be recognised. I wonder which labour friendly senior civil servant leaked this to Starmer? She paid the fine and took the points deduction after, allegedly, attempting to 'get away with it'. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 5:56:22 GMT
Why is asking for that that a problem? RedRum says that Braverman considered that she 'may' have been recognised if she attended a Group meeting. I think it's safe to say that if some attendees didn't immediately recognise her, the mere presence of the Home Secretary with her bodyguards would have been a distraction for others attending the course and negatively impacted upon the course for all concerned. Whether there's discussion of the type of car driven, the area, the time of day, possible school run etc, it would be understandable that Braverman would be reluctant to reveal such details which could indicate when she's not being chauffeured by Government car, but is driving herself and young children ... the fewer people party to such information the better from the point of view of her and her family. RedRum who will no doubt provide clarity, but may be insinuating that Braverman should have immediate and perfect recall of all aspects of the Ministerial code, and therefore asking a Civil Servant to enquire for her regarding a matter that was related to her as a private citizen rather than a Home Office or Government matter, is a momentary mistake of such severe gravity, that this 'problem' can only be retrospectively solved by the dismissal of the Home Secretary ? While Braverman appears to have readily acknowledged the advice she received, that the Civil Service couldn't take up her request, and so she delegated to a Special Advisor instead to make the necessary enquiry. While it does appear to be little more than a historical tiny storm in a very small teacup, the Left are characteristically baying for blood. In addition, would Rishi rather like to be presented with even a semi plausible excuse to rid himself of Braverman from his Government ? As for the timing, and why this should be (conveniently ?) dragged up now, with another set of shockingly high immigration figures due for release on Thursday, a good time to shift the spotlight onto a 'failed' Home Secretary rather than on No.10 ? You paint a pictue of a Braverman that I and most of the country would not recognise. "and therefore asking a Civil Servant to enquire for her regarding a matter that was related to her as a private citizen". She sounds really nice and polite.😂 She will have been offered a speed awareness course as a matter of routine and should of either accepted or declined it. As a minister, in fact attorney general at the time, she should not have been breaking the laws regarding driving. There are plenty of reasons why ordinary people would not wish to go on a speed awareness course but do not have the 'clout' or standing to seek a 'private' session or do all people in the public eye have one to one sessions? She should have accepted her 'mistake', paid the fine and points deduction without causing the hullabaloo we now have. |
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Post by Orac on May 22, 2023 6:43:30 GMT
Interestingly, I'm currently listening to lawyer Nick Freeman otherwise known as Mr Loophole, on GB News. He says he has arranged many one to one, or private speed awareness courses for 'celebrity' clients. In his opinion this is politically motivated and Braverman did nothing that could possibly be construed as legally wrong. Then Braverman should perhaps have used a private solicitor to sound out the possibility of a one-to-one rather than asking Home Office civil service staff to arrange her personal affairs. She might be calling on Mr Freeman’s services to extricate her from this current ethics breach… What a lot of dishonest cobblers. However, it may be true she might be well advised not to talk to the civil service - the civil service being an unelected political party in opposition to the current government. If she wouldn't talk to the labour party about something, she should probably not talk to civil service about the same. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 22, 2023 7:00:34 GMT
OK - I'll rephrase - you can ask one public sector worker a question but cannot ask another public sector worker the same question without it being a sacking offence.. Personally I think you are dancing the flamingo on the head of a pin. Your surname isn’t malaprop is it?  Nah - it's an old joke. Some comedian had a good sketch where he was talking about flamenco but kept saying flamingo - and it stuck.. For ever more it will be flamingo dancing.. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 22, 2023 7:11:00 GMT
So what it boils down to is Labour are outraged that Braverman asked the Civil Service to help her do a private speed awareness course - and the Civil Service are outraged at being asked to do any work at all..
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 7:31:45 GMT
So what it boils down to is Labour are outraged that Braverman asked the Civil Service to help her do a private speed awareness course - and the Civil Service are outraged at being asked to do any work at all.. I haven't seen any outrage, they are just asking the question, you do exaggerate. |
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Post by Bentley on May 22, 2023 8:37:12 GMT
Why is asking for that that a problem? You could not use the same excuse. I could still ask . |
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Post by wapentake on May 22, 2023 8:45:10 GMT
RedRum says that Braverman considered that she 'may' have been recognised if she attended a Group meeting. I think it's safe to say that if some attendees didn't immediately recognise her, the mere presence of the Home Secretary with her bodyguards would have been a distraction for others attending the course and negatively impacted upon the course for all concerned. Whether there's discussion of the type of car driven, the area, the time of day, possible school run etc, it would be understandable that Braverman would be reluctant to reveal such details which could indicate when she's not being chauffeured by Government car, but is driving herself and young children ... the fewer people party to such information the better from the point of view of her and her family. RedRum who will no doubt provide clarity, but may be insinuating that Braverman should have immediate and perfect recall of all aspects of the Ministerial code, and therefore asking a Civil Servant to enquire for her regarding a matter that was related to her as a private citizen rather than a Home Office or Government matter, is a momentary mistake of such severe gravity, that this 'problem' can only be retrospectively solved by the dismissal of the Home Secretary ? While Braverman appears to have readily acknowledged the advice she received, that the Civil Service couldn't take up her request, and so she delegated to a Special Advisor instead to make the necessary enquiry. While it does appear to be little more than a historical tiny storm in a very small teacup, the Left are characteristically baying for blood. In addition, would Rishi rather like to be presented with even a semi plausible excuse to rid himself of Braverman from his Government ? As for the timing, and why this should be (conveniently ?) dragged up now, with another set of shockingly high immigration figures due for release on Thursday, a good time to shift the spotlight onto a 'failed' Home Secretary rather than on No.10 ? You paint a pictue of a Braverman that I and most of the country would not recognise. "and therefore asking a Civil Servant to enquire for her regarding a matter that was related to her as a private citizen". She sounds really nice and polite.😂 She will have been offered a speed awareness course as a matter of routine and should of either accepted or declined it. As a minister, in fact attorney general at the time, she should not have been breaking the laws regarding driving. There are plenty of reasons why ordinary people would not wish to go on a speed awareness course but do not have the 'clout' or standing to seek a 'private' session or do all people in the public eye have one to one sessions? She should have accepted her 'mistake', paid the fine and points deduction without causing the hullabaloo we now have. Why is everybody ignoring the fact there’s an online option,and that the chance she’d be recognised is almost nil? |
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Post by Bentley on May 22, 2023 8:47:33 GMT
You paint a pictue of a Braverman that I and most of the country would not recognise. "and therefore asking a Civil Servant to enquire for her regarding a matter that was related to her as a private citizen". She sounds really nice and polite.😂 She will have been offered a speed awareness course as a matter of routine and should of either accepted or declined it. As a minister, in fact attorney general at the time, she should not have been breaking the laws regarding driving. There are plenty of reasons why ordinary people would not wish to go on a speed awareness course but do not have the 'clout' or standing to seek a 'private' session or do all people in the public eye have one to one sessions? She should have accepted her 'mistake', paid the fine and points deduction without causing the hullabaloo we now have. Why is everybody ignoring the fact there’s an online option,and that the chance she’d be recognised is almost nil? The course uses zoom . You can see each other . If you couldn’t Braverman then you shouldn’t be allowed on the road . |
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Post by sheepy on May 22, 2023 8:48:17 GMT
I feel a great victory for the plebs coming on. A win against the cruel intentions of saving themselves from themselves.
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Post by wapentake on May 22, 2023 8:53:48 GMT
Why is everybody ignoring the fact there’s an online option,and that the chance she’d be recognised is almost nil? The course uses zoom . You can see each other . If you couldn’t Braverman then you shouldn’t be allowed on the road . I’ve done the course,most of the time you are seeing stuff related to road safety or the course organiser and you only see others fleetingly and first names only used. Can’t say I’d recognise any of them if I fell over them. The screen on a phone isn’t that big and anyway you’re concentrating because if they think you’re not you’re out and it’s three points and a fine. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 8:58:35 GMT
That's why we need an inquiry, to find out what did happen. Then you answered your own question She paid the fine and took the points deduction after, allegedly, attempting to 'get away with it'. So we don't need an enquiry. We need the Civil Service to shut up, get on with the job and stop troublemaking 9 months after something didn't really happen. |
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Post by Bentley on May 22, 2023 9:00:03 GMT
The course uses zoom . You can see each other . If you couldn’t Braverman then you shouldn’t be allowed on the road . I’ve done the course,most of the time you are seeing stuff related to road safety or the course organiser and you only see others fleetingly and first names only used. Can’t say I’d recognise any of them if I fell over them. The screen on a phone isn’t that big and anyway you’re concentrating because if they think you’re not you’re out and it’s three points and a fine. I’ve done the course too. I saw the others enough to notice if Braverman was present . |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 9:01:11 GMT
So what it boils down to is Labour are outraged that Braverman asked the Civil Service to help her do a private speed awareness course - and the Civil Service are outraged at being asked to do any work at all.. The outrage took 9 months! This has been timed for effect, hasn't it? |
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