|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 26, 2023 8:02:06 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on May 26, 2023 8:40:06 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 11:57:33 GMT
The difference being we can sack our elected representatives in Westminster. No electorates have any power to sack the unelected commissars and presidents who govern the EU. The elected head of state can sack their one commissioner. Directly elected members of the EU parliament can dismiss the whole commission. And if you think the UK can dismiss a government when it wants, it has wanted to do so for at least two years and/or when three UNELECTED prime ministers took power. I dont remember any public voice in change of power over the last three years. If that is democracy or a response to a desire to change governments, you are a giraffe. LOL, I see. So you sneer at democracy in this country, while defending a wholly appointed executive overseen by an appointed president in the EU. To be fair, it's what I expected from someone who is as brainwashed and indoctrinated as you. By the way, the three unelected prime ministers you mention were all 'elected' members of parliament.  |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on May 26, 2023 17:00:23 GMT
Hypothetically a member of the House of Lords could legally become Prime Minister, but we all know that ain't gonna happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by colbops on May 26, 2023 18:54:31 GMT
Hypothetically a member of the House of Lords could legally become Prime Minister, but we all know that ain't gonna happen. That isn't a hypothetical. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on May 26, 2023 20:35:25 GMT
The elected head of state can sack their one commissioner. Directly elected members of the EU parliament can dismiss the whole commission. And if you think the UK can dismiss a government when it wants, it has wanted to do so for at least two years and/or when three UNELECTED prime ministers took power. I dont remember any public voice in change of power over the last three years. If that is democracy or a response to a desire to change governments, you are a giraffe. LOL, I see. So you sneer at democracy in this country, while defending a wholly appointed executive overseen by an appointed president in the EU. To be fair, it's what I expected from someone who is as brainwashed and indoctrinated as you. By the way, the three unelected prime ministers you mention were all 'elected' members of parliament. The appointed 27 were appointed by democratically elected heads of state, in the same way as ambassadors, high court judges and members of the cabinet are. Since the commission, appointed by a democratically elected government, cannot vote on any legislation while the UK cabinet can, I encourage you to read up on the construction and powers of the EU bodies. Finally the commission can be disbanded by democratically elected MEP's. The UK cabinet cannot. Nor can its ambassadors or any other person appointed by the government. You must have noticed how utterly powerless the people of the UK are as to sacking lying, cheating, bigoted, corrupt cabinet ministers. No? I urge you to think past the now ancient rhetoric. Commissioners do not have a political bias. They work for the EU, not the interests of their own country. Why do they have to be elected if they dont represent any country? The fact that there is one per country prevents national bias. You merely demonstrate your flakey knowledge about that which you make so much noise about. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on May 27, 2023 9:46:28 GMT
LOL, I see. So you sneer at democracy in this country, while defending a wholly appointed executive overseen by an appointed president in the EU. To be fair, it's what I expected from someone who is as brainwashed and indoctrinated as you. By the way, the three unelected prime ministers you mention were all 'elected' members of parliament. The appointed 27 were appointed by democratically elected heads of state, in the same way as ambassadors, high court judges and members of the cabinet are. Since the commission, appointed by a democratically elected government, cannot vote on any legislation while the UK cabinet can, I encourage you to read up on the construction and powers of the EU bodies. Finally the commission can be disbanded by democratically elected MEP's. The UK cabinet cannot. Nor can its ambassadors or any other person appointed by the government. You must have noticed how utterly powerless the people of the UK are as to sacking lying, cheating, bigoted, corrupt cabinet ministers. No? I urge you to think past the now ancient rhetoric. Commissioners do not have a political bias. They work for the EU, not the interests of their own country. Why do they have to be elected if they dont represent any country? The fact that there is one per country prevents national bias. You merely demonstrate your flakey knowledge about that which you make so much noise about. You claim EU commissars are 'democratically appointed', excellent lol, did you filch that from the politburo handbook. What on earth have ambassadors and high court judges got to do with proceedings? They do not make laws, and you have been told numerous times that cabinet ministers are elected members of parliament. You're grabbing at straws now. Why would the unelected commission vote on laws? They don't need a vote, they propose new laws. I advise you to read up on your subject: commission.europa.eu/about-european-commission/what-european-commission-does/law_en#:~:text=The%20European%20Commission%20is%20responsible,its%20citizens%20as%20a%20whole. You claim the unelected commission can be 'disbanded' by elected MEP's. In theory this is true, the EP can sack the commission but it's never happened and never will. That bit of legislation is just for show, even the notoriously corrupt Santer commission weren't sacked, they were allowed to resign and keep their gold plated pensions for life. You will never justify democracy in the EU establishment, because it's not there. The EU survives in spite of democracy, not because of it. Is there anything else I can help you with? |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on May 27, 2023 9:56:31 GMT
The thing is, the public in member states are not in control of policy direction in the EU, they don't get to choose what it is, or what it does.
They don't get to strip its powers back and repatriate sovereignty to their elected governments.
They get a one size fits none EU which doesn't work and even the EU admits requires reform, because they're now undergoing another treaty change.
But once it's done they won't be giving the public a list of options and different treaty choices, they'll be given a take it or take it, vote and made to vote again and again until they take it.
The EU are not very good at doing democracy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on May 27, 2023 16:11:21 GMT
If we'd stayed, we'd be in recession right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on May 27, 2023 20:11:08 GMT
If we'd stayed, we'd be in recession right now. Indeed, just like Germany which is often lauded as the powerhouse of the EU. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on May 28, 2023 7:32:22 GMT
I thought Vinny was ignoring me.
Still he has never failed to believe lies before.
|
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on May 28, 2023 7:46:15 GMT
The thing is, the public in member states are not in control of policy direction in the EU, they don't get to choose what it is, or what it does. They don't get to strip its powers back and repatriate sovereignty to their elected governments. They get a one size fits none EU which doesn't work and even the EU admits requires reform, because they're now undergoing another treaty change. But once it's done they won't be giving the public a list of options and different treaty choices, they'll be given a take it or take it, vote and made to vote again and again until they take it. The EU are not very good at doing democracy. Neither does the UK get to control policy direction. I doubt they were told about proroguing parliament when they voted, or had a voice in all those changes of PM, not to mention changes in general policy. As for treaty change, the UK desperately needs one, called a General Election, which contrary to the myth of being able to get rid of officials quickly in the UK, is impossible until the five year rule comes to term. The people of thee EU are presented with manifestoes from the 8 parties plus independants before every five year election.they have a far wider choice of policy than thw two plus the libdems in the UK. Vinny's biggest problem is that he thinks his opinions are facts when his "facts" are made up.completely inaccurate. And he refuses to do the necessary research. He seriously lives in a world of his own imagination. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on May 28, 2023 10:58:30 GMT
If we'd stayed, we'd be in recession right now. Indeed, just like Germany which is often lauded as the powerhouse of the EU. Germany, whose military took part in a NATO exercise with broomsticks for guns because of shortages. Their defence minister at the time was Ursula Von Der Leyen. She fell upwards and became the head of the EU. Fucked up vaccine procurement in that job just as she'd fucked up defence procurement. So glad we're out and doing alright, instead of being in, and in recession. |
|
|
|
Post by patman post on May 28, 2023 12:02:42 GMT
If we'd stayed, we'd be in recession right now. That’s a great comfort to everyone — especially those who are struggling to keep a roof over their family’s head and put food on the table. They can feel relieved that their wages are no longer dropping by 10% per quarter, but by 8% and if they or their landlord fixed the mortgage, they’ll only be having to find another £300 to £400 a month… |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on May 28, 2023 17:21:34 GMT
Even worse is happening in EU member states like Germany.
|
|
