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Post by Bentley on May 28, 2023 7:51:44 GMT
Darling thinks he can post lie after lie, strawman after strawman then set the boundaries to honest debate when it suits him. He thinks that he can define what a comment really means when it suits him . He can openly admit to posting an insult, retract it then expect to be the arbiter on what is an insult to him on the grounds that others know the English language. Jeez. You brought children into it. You brought child molesting into it . Not me .
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Post by sheepy on May 28, 2023 7:56:14 GMT
What happens when you are so reliant on AI there will be no other option? Then you become completely dependent on something entirely opaque to you. Something perhaps no human really understands or could. Henceforth people may have no real understanding of what makes their society function or why things are happening. This may mean the end of politics as we know it. I submit that to some limited extent this is already happening in the social effects of 'the algorithm'. If you don't like society being increasingly run by various sorting procedures, you are going to hate AI because it is likely going to be the same thing on atomic steroids. Doing a 'search' wont just tell you what news to believe, it will tell you who to employ and how much to offer them. Exactly that, once your options are reduced to zero, you are totally reliant on AI.
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Post by Orac on May 28, 2023 9:06:24 GMT
Then you become completely dependent on something entirely opaque to you. Something perhaps no human really understands or could. Henceforth people may have no real understanding of what makes their society function or why things are happening. This may mean the end of politics as we know it. I submit that to some limited extent this is already happening in the social effects of 'the algorithm'. If you don't like society being increasingly run by various sorting procedures, you are going to hate AI because it is likely going to be the same thing on atomic steroids. Doing a 'search' wont just tell you what news to believe, it will tell you who to employ and how much to offer them. Exactly that, once your options are reduced to zero, you are totally reliant on AI. How will children in the future understand history? They will ask the AI The full horror becomes clear
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Post by Einhorn on May 28, 2023 9:21:38 GMT
Exactly that, once your options are reduced to zero, you are totally reliant on AI. How will children in the future understand history? They will ask the AI The full horror becomes clear This assumes that watchdog bodies will simply fade away. Don't people already have completely false ideas of history? Are you familiar with the Mohawk Valley Formula?
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Post by Orac on May 28, 2023 9:39:17 GMT
How will children in the future understand history? They will ask the AI The full horror becomes clear Don't people already have completely false ideas of history? I think this response is illustrative of the problem. If you were given the job of teaching the correct historical view to the Ai, you would happily do it.
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Post by Einhorn on May 28, 2023 9:51:24 GMT
Don't people already have completely false ideas of history? I think this response is illustrative of the problem. If you were given the job of teaching the correct historical view to the Ai, you would happily do it. That doesn't make any sense. Remove the adjectives and you have the facts. It's quite straight forward. As long as there are watchdog bodies to protect platforms that work on that principle, there will always be access to the truth. I mentioned The Mohawk Valley Formula earlier. I had Chomsky's discussion of the idea in mind. There is a tendency in the right wing media to link everything to patriotism. That affects people on a visceral level, particularly more authoritarian types. There was a strike in the US in the thirties. The Mohawk Valley Formula was a strategic plan to link the activities of the strikers to 'un-American' activities. Anyone who strikes is a 'commie', that was the message the industrialists instructed their media to convey. The idea is very simple: don't focus on the particular details of the workers' gripe, however fair they may be; instead, make it about the bigger issue of patriotism. If people focus on why the strikers are actually striking they might see that they have a point; so, take the focus off the actual details and make it about being 'American'. Tap right into the nation's tribal instinct. It's Chomsky position that that is what the right-wing Media do every day. If you look for it, you might find it in the Brexit debate. If Chomsky is correct (I'm no sociologist, so I can't say), the horror you describe is already here. Murdoch et al are already applying The Mohawk Valley Formula. They are not necessarily lying about facts (though they do that frequently), they are distracting away from the real issues. If (and it's only an if) Chomsky is correct, there is no need to tell lies on a massive scale.
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Post by sheepy on May 28, 2023 9:55:45 GMT
LOL back to Basics then, it is all about the left and right game. A BOGOFF deal in the making.
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Post by sheepy on May 28, 2023 10:12:09 GMT
I think this response is illustrative of the problem. If you were given the job of teaching the correct historical view to the Ai, you would happily do it. That doesn't make any sense. Remove the adjectives and you have the facts. It's quite straight forward. As long as there are watchdog bodies to protect platforms that work on that principle, there will always be access to the truth. I mentioned The Mohawk Valley Formula earlier. I had Chomsky's discussion of the idea in mind. There is a tendency in the right wing media to link everything to patriotism. That affects people on a visceral level, particularly more authoritarian types. There was a strike in the US in the thirties. The Mohawk Valley Formula was a strategic plan to link the activities of the strikers to 'un-American' activities. Anyone who strikes is a 'commie', that was the message the industrialists instructed their media to convey. The idea is very simple: don't focus on the particular details of the workers' gripe, however fair they may be; instead, make it about the bigger issue of patriotism. If people focus on why the strikers are actually striking they might see that they have a point; so, take the focus off the actual details and make it about being 'American'. Tap right into the nation's nationalist instinct. It's Chomsky position that that is what the right-wing Media do every day. If you look for it, you might find it in the Brexit debate. If Chomsky is correct (I'm no sociologist, so I can't say), the horror you describe is already here. Murdoch et al are already applying The Mohawk Valley Formula. They are not necessarily lying about facts (though they do that frequently), they are distracting away from the real issues. If (and it's only an if) Chomsky is correct, there is no need to tell lies on a massive scale. Can we just get it over with instead of running around the bush, somehow you have to make Marx's theories fit. even if it is via what somebody else has stuck the pin on the donkey.
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Post by Orac on May 28, 2023 10:12:37 GMT
That doesn't make any sense. Remove the adjectives and you have the facts. It's quite straight forward. I think this is further illustration of the problem. The world seems to be increasingly split into two groups - those who believe that their opinions really are drawn from a logical process of 'removing adjectives' (or something similar) and people who have some real handle on the truth of their position and human nature. The Ai is already among us?
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Post by Einhorn on May 28, 2023 10:18:12 GMT
That doesn't make any sense. Remove the adjectives and you have the facts. It's quite straight forward. I think this is further illustration of the problem. The world seems to be increasingly split into two groups - those who believe that their opinions really are drawn from a logical process of 'removing adjectives' (or something similar) and people who have some real handle on the truth of their position and human nature. The Ai is already among us? I don't see how that is a counter-argument. As long as watchdog bodies exist, there will continue to be access to the truth. Some people will avoid those platforms, preferring to have their biases confirmed. But, there is no reason to believe that there will be fewer watchdog bodies in the future. In fact, someone could just as easily conjecture that there will be more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 10:33:20 GMT
Moderator warning. Accusations of child molesting against a fellow member are not acceptable. We have had specific instructions from the site owner to ban anyone who does this. There will be no further warnings. That’s good because there never was an accusation of child molesting .There would be many more reasons to keep a leftie deluded troll away from children . That’s even if it was directly aimed at him ie “ YOU SHOULD stay away from children “ Darling repeats the same lies over and over again and you fall for it. Now how about addressing the constant trolling and lies from him? Oh and the little troll admitted to insulting my mother . Something I believe you warned against a while ago. You can't even point out the fact that the trolls are using multiple accounts.
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Post by Einhorn on May 28, 2023 10:35:44 GMT
That’s good because there never was an accusation of child molesting .There would be many more reasons to keep a leftie deluded troll away from children . That’s even if it was directly aimed at him ie “ YOU SHOULD stay away from children “ Darling repeats the same lies over and over again and you fall for it. Now how about addressing the constant trolling and lies from him? Oh and the little troll admitted to insulting my mother . Something I believe you warned against a while ago. You can't even point out the fact that the trolls are using multiple accounts.
Well, it's a banning offense, so it makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 10:40:25 GMT
I'm thinking of deleting my account from here anyway. It's worse than Russia on here.
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Post by Einhorn on May 28, 2023 10:42:39 GMT
I'm thinking of deleting my account from here anyway. It's worse than Russia on here. You are perfectly entitled to report any suspicions of multiple accounts to the Mods. They will investigate.
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Post by Orac on May 28, 2023 10:50:13 GMT
I think this is further illustration of the problem. The world seems to be increasingly split into two groups - those who believe that their opinions really are drawn from a logical process of 'removing adjectives' (or something similar) and people who have some real handle on the truth of their position and human nature. The Ai is already among us? I don't see how that is a counter-argument. As long as watchdog bodies exist, there will continue to be access to the truth. Some people will avoid those platforms, preferring to have their biases confirmed. But, there is no reason to believe that there will be fewer watchdog bodies in the future. In fact, someone could just as easily conjecture that there will be more. I used your attitudes as an illustration of why there may well be a problem. Because society is a big argument with millions of people being influenced by millions of others, you currently don't really have the power to categorise your opinions as the single best received view because you 'removed the adjectives'. This is a good thing
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