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Post by Bentley on May 15, 2023 15:20:46 GMT
Anyway, I am tiring of taking on three or four ignoramuses single handed all day long and need a break. Your stupidity and frequent failure to understand plain English has reached the stage where I am constantly being told I said things I didnt and causing me to waste time explaining for the unpteenth time what I did actually say. If you are going to invent things I never said to argue against you are all perfectly capable of doing that without me actually needing to be here, lol. So the field is yours. Knock yourselves out and I might come back later for a laugh. You can all do what you usually do and slap each other on the back whilst convincing nobody of anything except yourselves, whilst competing for the crown of forum idiot together, lol You’re not convincing anyone . |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 15:22:16 GMT
The right to vote, is citizenship. And a foreigner in our country, who wants to vote in our country, can pay to become one of us. The fee is not very high, it's quite reasonable and gives them the right not only to vote, but to stand for office. The right to vote should not come at a price. Standing for office is another issue. And £1400 is not a reasonable amount to have to pay for that right. Clearly you are not prepared to in spite of my challenge. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 15:25:30 GMT
I stated all along that residency should be the determinant of the right to vote but that everyone resident here pays some taxes here. Is that really so hard to understand? Clearly yes because in your book any detailed argument that you don't like but cannot effectively counter is "waffle." Maybe I should stop using big words and include drawings? So basically you agree with what I’m saying and whining about it at the same time lol. So basically you are too thick to understand what I am saying? Because you oppose the extension of the franchise. I do not. You need to look up the definition of the word "agree". And the whining from all you right wing twats here at a reasonable proposal is epic, lol |
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Post by Bentley on May 15, 2023 15:27:57 GMT
So basically you agree with what I’m saying and whining about it at the same time lol. So basically you are too thick to understand what I am saying? Because you oppose the extension of the franchise. I do not. You need to look up the definition of the word "agree". And the whining from all you right wing twats here at a reasonable proposal is epic, lol If you have convinced yourself that the right to vote should only be given to UK adult citizens is a right wing concept then you need to get out more .😁 |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 15:31:30 GMT
So basically you are too thick to understand what I am saying? Because you oppose the extension of the franchise. I do not. You need to look up the definition of the word "agree". And the whining from all you right wing twats here at a reasonable proposal is epic, lol If you have convinced yourself that the right to vote should only be given to UK adult citizens is a right wing concept then you need to get out more .😁 There's going to be a lot of people who feel a little right wing after reading his posts. It could be reverse psychology. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 15:32:16 GMT
If the focus groups and opinion polls were to start telling him that, he'd drop it like a hot potato and rule it out, but then do it anyway once elected.. But chances are he has probably already run this by focus groups - its the way he works - and found that most of the opposition to it comes from people who would never vote for him in the first place whilst undecideds and persuadables are more favourable to the idea. I mean just look at the heated opposition to it in this thread, almost entirely motivated by partisan political considerations rather than any more principled opposition. And all the heated objections are coming almost entirely from people who would never vote Labour in a million years anyway. It is not you lot who he is appealing to here. It is the more reasonable masses out there which you lot like to think you represent from within your own echo chambers but do not. The ones who are not motivated by right wing partisan political considerations but simply by what seems right and fair to them and the friends around them. Most people I know include foreign nationals amongst their friends and work colleagues, and we tend to think of them and the people around us when we consider the reasonableness of what is being proposed. See that's the danger for you, Shrieky: You're right that these places are echo chambers but you come on here (and doubtless other forums on which the very same people post the very same shite) and you think that lots of people agree with you. But out in the real world, they don't. You're just listening to the same tiny handful of people repeating the same minority views back to you. This may come as a shock, but the silent majority are not as keen as you on immigration, rights for foreigners, votes for children, self-defined gender issues or wokery in general. It has zero resonance at best and is actively unpopular at worst. Yeah, you probably think that makes them all horrible bigots. Hell, you may even be right, but telling them so will only make them vote against you even more. As Starmer is probably about to find out. Unlike most people here I go door to door campaigning politically so do get to hear a wide range of views. And if I wanted to inhabit an echo chamber all day why would I have wasted so much of it arguing with you ignorant fools who wouldnt recognise a principle if it bit you on the arse? Because anyone arguing with anyone here is a clear waste of time for all of us. Because we all walk away with exactly the same opinions as we rocked up with. Though I find the utterly transparent and politically partisan arguments by the usual suspects in this thread even more unconvincing than the usual shite you so often spout. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 15, 2023 15:33:05 GMT
So basically you agree with what I’m saying and whining about it at the same time lol. So basically you are too thick to understand what I am saying? Because you oppose the extension of the franchise. I do not. You need to look up the definition of the word "agree". And the whining from all you right wing twats here at a reasonable proposal is epic, lol I thought you were about to fuck off, Shrieky. Seems you've U-Turned even faster than Beer Korma! 
Meanwhile, back in the real world... Last time around I voted for the party that got an 80 seat majority which indicates that my views are closer to the mainstream than yours.
And my assessment is that Starmer currently has an open goal hence he imagines that he can get any old unpopular shit through it. But he also has a proven record of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
“The public aren't bothered about woke” he says.
Aren't they, Sir Keir? Well I think he's going to find out.
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Post by Bentley on May 15, 2023 15:33:06 GMT
If you have convinced yourself that the right to vote should only be given to UK adult citizens is a right wing concept then you need to get out more .😁 There's going to be a lot of people who feel a little right wing after reading his posts. It could be reverse psychology. Possibly. The irony is that he believes anyone who thinks differently from him is an extremist , much the same as his nemesis see2. |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 15:33:16 GMT
The right to vote, is citizenship. And a foreigner in our country, who wants to vote in our country, can pay to become one of us. The fee is not very high, it's quite reasonable and gives them the right not only to vote, but to stand for office. The right to vote should not come at a price. Standing for office is another issue. And £1400 is not a reasonable amount to have to pay for that right. Clearly you are not prepared to in spite of my challenge. Irrespective of your feelings, the entirety of the developed world, including members of the EU do it my way. Back when we were members of the EU, EU migrants living here could not stand for Parliament or vote for MPs without paying for citizenship. |
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Post by Bentley on May 15, 2023 15:34:56 GMT
I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the price of the right to vote is to live long enough to be an adult and obtain UK citizenship.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 15, 2023 15:35:34 GMT
There's going to be a lot of people who feel a little right wing after reading his posts. It could be reverse psychology. Possibly. The irony is that he believes anyone who thinks differently from him is an extremist , much the same as his nemesis see2. When you're as far left as Shrieky even the centre appears "Far Right".  |
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Post by Toreador on May 15, 2023 16:13:54 GMT
Both my moral and reasoned arguments are sound. Therefore, if they have such commitment, like you allege they do towards Britain then they will have no trouble in motivating themselves to get citizenship. You think it is that simple or are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes? Citizenship is not free and something you get for free. It is for sale. And the cost is heavy. £1330. Now that might be nothing to your typical Russian oligarch or wealthy foreign Tory donor but it is a huge amount to many people and an awfully high price to be expected to pay just to be able to vote. If you had to pay that sum in order to obtain the right to vote would you bother? I put it to you that very few people would. Why should my friend who struggles financially like most working people have to pay such a sum just to vote? No amount of motivating oneself is ever going to be enough if you dont have £1330 laying around. www.gov.uk/government/publications/fees-for-citizenship-applications/fees-for-citizenship-applications-and-the-right-of-abode-from-6-april-2018I know what you are really afraid of. That they might not think the way you want them to re the EU. And incidentally, the proposal is not limited to EU nationals alone as the Tory press would have the usual gullible idiots believe, but ALL nationals from anywhere in the world, not just EU ones, after a period of residency here. And for your information New Zealand gives the vote to all nationals resident in New Zealand for at least 2 years. I suspect politically motivated motives in your opposition to the idea. In fact it is transparently obvious. And anyone who opposes a reasonable extension of democracy because they basically fear how the new voters might vote is not basing their argument on any higher principle greater than suspicion of foreigners and are nowhere near the moral high ground. They are closer to the moral gutter. There are tests as well as payment. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 16:29:30 GMT
I have just heard that Starmer intends to ban smoking if he wins the general election. As widespread drug abuse is now endemic and unchallenged it seems to be rather harsh and pointless to stop people having a fag, but that's socialism for you. Do you doubt that smoking causes cancers? The NHS would benefit from people not smoking. People would live longer for not smoking. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 16:31:39 GMT
I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the price of the right to vote is to live long enough to be an adult and obtain UK citizenship. At £1400 it is a lot to pay for the price to vote. None of us would choose to pay it. This is intentional, so that only the well off will pay it, ie those who mostly vote Tory. You are a transparent load of unprincipled partisan fuckers really arent you? lol |
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Post by Pacifico on May 15, 2023 16:34:05 GMT
I have just heard that Starmer intends to ban smoking if he wins the general election. As widespread drug abuse is now endemic and unchallenged it seems to be rather harsh and pointless to stop people having a fag, but that's socialism for you. Do you doubt that smoking causes cancers? The NHS would benefit from people not smoking. People would live longer for not smoking. The NHS wants people to die younger - it's cheaper for them. The longer people live the more chronic illnesses they get and the more it costs. |
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