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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 12:34:36 GMT
I have never commented on it let alone tried to justify it. I have commented on the unnecessary garbage you add to your comments. Well, at least you admit you have no substance to offer in this discussion then. Glad you cleared that up for us. All you have is the fear of extending the francjhise in case they disagree with you at the ballot box. This is not logically or morally compelling. You see, I don't actually care how they vote. I just want them to have the right to do so because it seems only reasonable to do so. |
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Post by bancroft on May 15, 2023 12:36:27 GMT
!6-17 should not have the right to vote as they are not treated as full adults in criminal law nor the military precisely as they are not seen as adults.
If a settled EU citizens here wants the vote let them first get UK citizenship in NZ for example you have to give up your foreign passport.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 12:40:26 GMT
My political opinions are no secret and I am faintly surprised that it has taken you several years to observe that I have slightly right of centre moderate and conservative views. It has long been obvious to me that you are on the right and a conservative supporter, which is fair enough if thats where you stand. You have never come across as particularly moderate to me though, more your usual right wing headbanger. But hey ho, this forum would never prosper without a diversity of opinions. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 12:41:58 GMT
!6-17 should not have the right to vote as they are not treated as full adults in criminal law nor the military precisely as they are not seen as adults. If a settled EU citizens here wants the vote let them first get UK citizenship in NZ for example you have to give up your foreign passport. But British citizenship cost a fortune. If it were just a case of giving up a foreign passport then fair enough, but it is not. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 12:46:18 GMT
And the right to a British Passport is for sale…: British citizenship application fee (this includes the £80 British citizenship ceremony fee which includes the administration of a citizenship oath and pledge) – £1130 Biometric appointment fee – £19.20 Life in the UK Test fee – £50 English language test fee (only required for citizens of certain countries) – £150 So what's the problem then in them getting citizenship? Oh, that's right Starmer would rather rush through perm residents, and allow them to vote in order to consolidate a pro-Labour/pro-EU demographic. Er, this has to be the most wilfully obtuse comment of the year thus far. The very post you are quoting explains the problem in them getting citizenship, namely the huge cost. OMG how more clearly does that inconvenient fact have to be spelt out? |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 12:47:38 GMT
All they needed to do was become British Citizens and they'd have the vote anyway. Ah but that costs upwards of £1330!!! Nothing compared to what they paid to come here and what they paid to live here. It works out at £110 a month for 12 months. Now, consider saving up £55 a month for two years to pay that. Not much at all. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 12:48:06 GMT
What, for the right to vote? over £1400? What fecking planet are you on.!!! |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 12:49:42 GMT
What, for the right to vote? over £1400? What fecking planet are you on.!!! Considering the cost of council tax per year, the cost of water, the cost of electricity, the cost of housing, a one off payment of £1400 doesn't break the bank. Let them pay it. The rest of us have to pay our taxes. Stop whinging. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 15, 2023 12:51:04 GMT
UK citizens living in the EU cant vote in EU elections, why the hell should EU citizens vote in UK elections? Part of the reason we have left the EU is so we can make our own rules so why the hell does it matter anymore what they do? Besides by leaving the EU we created a situation that forced all EU nationals either to leave or proactively apply for the right of residency. In doing the latter they have further proactively demonstrated their commitment to the UK as their chosen home and place of work. Besides - unlike as the Tory press would have all the usual kneejerk gullible fools believe, the proposal is not limited to EU nationals but is proposed for all nationals after a period of residency. New Zealand allows all nationals including British ones the right to vote after being resident in New Zealand for 2 years. So I will turn your risibly predictable argument on its head. Why should New Zealanders be denied the vote here when our nationals are allowed the vote there? You can prevaricate all you like, the bottom line is this: The EU do not allow UK citizens living in the EU to vote in the EU. Therefor, why on earth should we allow EU citizens living in the UK to vote in the UK? It's madness. It's pro EU appeasement and totally expected from pro EU Starmer. |
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Post by bancroft on May 15, 2023 12:53:08 GMT
Labour are desperate to beat the Tories so are trying to move the voting goal posts to improve their chances.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 13:05:38 GMT
!6-17 should not have the right to vote as they are not treated as full adults in criminal law nor the military precisely as they are not seen as adults. If a settled EU citizens here wants the vote let them first get UK citizenship in NZ for example you have to give up your foreign passport. Anyone old enough to legally have sex and make babies, to leave home, and to work and pay their taxes, and no longer legally entitled to continued parental care, and indeed can be on the road with motorised vehicles and trusted to be trained to use arms, and who is of an age to be able to think rationally, as most people can at 16, why deny them a vote? It is actually blatantly obvious most of the time that the main reason for opposition to the idea is not a principled one at all but dislike of the way they think they might vote, which itself is arrogantly assumed to be evidence of their stupidity. Well I have news. The amount of older people who vote Tory strikes me as evidence of the greater stupidity of older people. Should I take a leaf out of your books and start calling for you to be denied the vote? I put it to you that how someone is likely to vote shouldnt matter to the argument about whether it is right for them to be able to do so or not. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 13:14:40 GMT
Labour want the young because they can fill their ittle heads with ritualistic social justice nonsense and talk of freebies. Older people don't buy that crap. Older people would traditionally vote Conservative because it better protected their hard work. Obviously, this was before blue Labour, which is about as Conservative as Labour.
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 13:15:56 GMT
When someone hasn't paid their taxes in this country, but another, they have no right to vote here unless they contribute.
A one off payment of £1400 is not asking much before they can vote.
They can take all the time they want to save up.
£60 a month for two years covers it.
It's no big deal.
EU migrants were given settled status aka permanent residency.
They can take all the time they want.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 13:16:10 GMT
Why the hell should they pay taxes then? If they are 'permanent' citizens which is what Labour are talking about they should have a say in what their money is spent on. EU citizens living in this country pay more in taxes than we do. I will ask again: UK citizens living in the EU cant vote in EU elections, why the hell should EU citizens vote in UK elections? Would that not be a Brexit benefit, taking back control? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 13:16:43 GMT
Ah but that costs upwards of £1330!!! Nothing compared to what they paid to come here and what they paid to live here. It works out at £110 a month for 12 months. Now, consider saving up £55 a month for two years to pay that. Not much at all. Why should they have to pay such a large sum just to have a vote basically? And are you stupid enough not to understand that the sums you have just come up with would be a crippling cost to many? And unaffordable to quite a few? You know damned well that most people would never pay that for the right to vote. I wouldnt and i very much doubt you would. If I am wrong on that latter point, at the next election please pay £1400 into a charity of my choice before voting. Put your money where your mouth is. I very much doubt you'd find the cost quite so reasonable if you had to pay it yourself. There is a curious fact here though which is rather convenient. The right to vote comes with citizenship only. Citizenship costs a lot of money. But the more money you have or earn, the easier it is to buy citizenship and with it the right to vote. And the more money you have or earn the more likely you are to vote Conservative. Convenient that, isnt it? Man, are your real motives so completely transparent. I can see through you as easily as I can see through glass. |
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