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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:04:10 GMT
Some quote Darwin, Newton, and Churchill as if their words were gospel. It would seem that false idols abound, Benny. What of it? Newton was a mathematician and scientist. People quote Newtons regarding his maths and science discoveries Darlene You never read his views on alchemy or the holy trinity . Darwin was a scientist who proposed a theory that seems to be correct . Marx was a political philosopher who’s followers not only repeatedly failed to impose his doctrine but killed millions of people in the process. There is no Churchillian political doctrine . And please stop calling me Darlene, Benny. The stigma is killing me  |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:05:55 GMT
Early communism was so bad that it was unsustainable. It never worked . Capitalism adapted and works . Compare the fruits of early communism with the fruits of early capitalism after 50 years. So, compare the living standard of the average Brit in 1820 with the living standard of the average Russian in 1967. You will see that communism 'worked' better to increase the living standards of the individual. Communism produced a more rapid progress for humanity (though nobody could deny that late capitalism is a better place to live than early communism or early capitalism). It took more than a century of capitalism to produce democracy; communism never had the opportunity to develop democracy - given that communism produced human goods at a faster pace than capitalism, it is not unfair to assume that it would have produced democracy in a shorter period than capitalism produced it). And communism failed in Russia because Western capitalism took a stand against it. It could not sustain the cost of maintaining itself (the nuclear arms race bankrupted it (not that it had much to begin with). Nobody misses Russian communism. It was early communism. It was appalling. But nobody misses early capitalism either. Nothing to compare . Communism morphed into totalitarianism pretty much straight away , killed millions of people and eventually imploded. That's the pattern Capitalism adapted and survives. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:08:56 GMT
Compare the fruits of early communism with the fruits of early capitalism after 50 years. So, compare the living standard of the average Brit in 1820 with the living standard of the average Russian in 1967. You will see that communism 'worked' better to increase the living standards of the individual. Communism produced a more rapid progress for humanity (though nobody could deny that late capitalism is a better place to live than early communism or early capitalism). It took more than a century of capitalism to produce democracy; communism never had the opportunity to develop democracy - given that communism produced human goods at a faster pace than capitalism, it is not unfair to assume that it would have produced democracy in a shorter period than capitalism produced it). And communism failed in Russia because Western capitalism took a stand against it. It could not sustain the cost of maintaining itself (the nuclear arms race bankrupted it (not that it had much to begin with). Nobody misses Russian communism. It was early communism. It was appalling. But nobody misses early capitalism either. Nothing to compare . Communism morphed into totalitarianism pretty much straight away , killed millions of people and eventually imploded. That's the pattern Capitalism adapted and survives. LOL! Capitalism morphed into totalitarianism pretty much straight away. What about the Bloody Code? What about slavery in early American capitalism? What about turning countless Chinese into junkies to force them to engage in trade? What about Peterloo? All these things and many worse happened under early capitalism. |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:09:50 GMT
Newton was a mathematician and scientist. People quote Newtons regarding his maths and science discoveries Darlene You never read his views on alchemy or the holy trinity . Darwin was a scientist who proposed a theory that seems to be correct . Marx was a political philosopher who’s followers not only repeatedly failed to impose his doctrine but killed millions of people in the process. There is no Churchillian political doctrine . Darwin proposed a theory of the evolution of species; Marx produced a theory of the evolution of societies. Darwin's theory is disputed. So is Marx's. Darwin’s theory is demonstrable . Marx’s theory has resulted in failed societies ..every time . There is no comparison except maybe comparing Newtons theories regarding science and maths and his ideas regarding alchemy. The former is essentially correct band the latter is demonstrably unsustainable. |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:10:29 GMT
Newton was a mathematician and scientist. People quote Newtons regarding his maths and science discoveries Darlene You never read his views on alchemy or the holy trinity . Darwin was a scientist who proposed a theory that seems to be correct . Marx was a political philosopher who’s followers not only repeatedly failed to impose his doctrine but killed millions of people in the process. There is no Churchillian political doctrine . And please stop calling me Darlene, Benny. The stigma is killing me Dont beg Darlene . It suits you . |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:12:42 GMT
Nothing to compare . Communism morphed into totalitarianism pretty much straight away , killed millions of people and eventually imploded. That's the pattern Capitalism adapted and survives. LOL! Capitalism morphed into totalitarianism pretty much straight away. What about the Bloody Code? What about slavery in early American capitalism? What about turning countless Chinese into junkies to force them to engage in trade? What about Peterloo? All these things and many worse happened under early capitalism. Capitalism adapted and survived . Communism imploded every time . |
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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:27:28 GMT
Darwin proposed a theory of the evolution of species; Marx produced a theory of the evolution of societies. Darwin's theory is disputed. So is Marx's. Darwin’s theory is demonstrable . Marx’s theory has resulted in failed societies ..every time . There is no comparison except maybe comparing Newtons theories regarding science and maths and his ideas regarding alchemy. The former is essentially correct band the latter is demonstrably unsustainable. If you think that capitalism was a success for the ordinary individual after 50 years, you have obviously never opened a history book. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:29:07 GMT
LOL! Capitalism morphed into totalitarianism pretty much straight away. What about the Bloody Code? What about slavery in early American capitalism? What about turning countless Chinese into junkies to force them to engage in trade? What about Peterloo? All these things and many worse happened under early capitalism. Capitalism adapted and survived . Communism imploded every time . No, communism died in Russia because Russia had meagre resources which the West compelled it to spend on nuclear weapons which bankrupted it. Communist Russia was a shithole. Nobody denies that. But so was early capitalism. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:31:02 GMT
And please stop calling me Darlene, Benny. The stigma is killing me Dont beg Darlene . It suits you . I admire someone who can so effortlessly come up with words beginning with D, Benny. You've called me Darjeeling, Dorky, and now Darlene. Surely, you can't maintain this level of creativity. |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:32:10 GMT
Darwin’s theory is demonstrable . Marx’s theory has resulted in failed societies ..every time . There is no comparison except maybe comparing Newtons theories regarding science and maths and his ideas regarding alchemy. The former is essentially correct band the latter is demonstrably unsustainable. If you think that capitalism was a success for the ordinary individual after 50 years, you have obviously never opened a history book. Communism is based on a false premise . The fantasy of a society of equals . The problem comes when the fantasists try to impose it on the people. Society becomes totalitarian, elites are created and the experiment becomes a perversion of its original goal. Then it implodes ..quickly. Capitalism evolved from earlier societies . It has adapted and became a huge success . |
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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:34:59 GMT
If you think that capitalism was a success for the ordinary individual after 50 years, you have obviously never opened a history book. Communism is based on a false premise . The fantasy of a society of equals . The problem comes when the fantasists try to impose it on the people. Society becomes totalitarian, elites are created and the experiment becomes a perversion of its original goal. Then it implodes ..quickly. Capitalism evolved from earlier societies . It has adapted and became a huge success . Are you seriously saying that the conditions of early capitalism weren't imposed? Do you expect us to believe that entire nations willed large swathes of their population being turned into junkies, or that people willed living in slum conditions or working as slaves on cotton plantations? |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:37:11 GMT
Dont beg Darlene . It suits you . I admire someone who can so effortlessly come up with words beginning with D, Benny. You've called me Darjeeling, Dorky, and now Darlene. Surely, you can't maintain this level of creativity. You forgot dalek. I’m quite offended tbh. |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:39:03 GMT
Capitalism adapted and survived . Communism imploded every time . No, communism died in Russia because Russia had meagre resources which the West compelled it to spend on nuclear weapons which bankrupted it. Communist Russia was a shithole. Nobody denies that. But so was early capitalism. The communist experiment has failed wherever it was attempted. The fantasy has to be imposed by the fantasists. Imposing it by the gun, famine and gulags failed spectacularly. Todays fantasists may not be clever enough to get a degree in science or maths but they are smart enough to know that. So the strategy is to impose it through the arts , media and university woke Madrasas . |
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Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 13:43:10 GMT
Communism is based on a false premise . The fantasy of a society of equals . The problem comes when the fantasists try to impose it on the people. Society becomes totalitarian, elites are created and the experiment becomes a perversion of its original goal. Then it implodes ..quickly. Capitalism evolved from earlier societies . It has adapted and became a huge success . Are you seriously saying that the conditions of early capitalism weren't imposed? Do you expect us to believe that entire nations willed large swathes of their population being turned into junkies, or that people willed living in slum conditions or working as slaves on cotton plantations? I never suggested otherwise . Capitalism has never been an experiment by fantasist’s. It has been an exercise in cold cynicism. However it has adapted and it only survived, it’s spectacularly successful. Communism is a failed experiment that adopts some of capitalisms worst features as soon as the fantasists impose their fantasies on the public . |
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Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 13:49:18 GMT
No, communism died in Russia because Russia had meagre resources which the West compelled it to spend on nuclear weapons which bankrupted it. Communist Russia was a shithole. Nobody denies that. But so was early capitalism. The communist experiment has failed wherever it was attempted. The fantasy has to be imposed by the fantasists. Imposing it by the gun, famine and gulags failed spectacularly. Todays fantasists may not be clever enough to get a degree in science or maths but they are smart enough to know that. So the strategy is to impose it through the arts , media and university woke Madrasas . It has failed because of historical contingency. Capitalism had a head start by more than a hundred years. Capitalism had amassed wealth to itself that communism simply did not possess at the time it developed. Capitalism developed by historical accident. There is no reason why it should have occurred before communism. It was pure chance. If chance had gone the other way, communism would have developed first and it would have destroyed capitalism in its infancy (by forcing it to spend all its wealth on weaponry, as the Russians were forced to do). And communism isn't a finished story. As you know, Marx claimed that all societies evolved along a socialist trajectory. His theory holds that capitalism will evolve into socialism and socialism into communism. The conditions under which 'communism' existed in Eastern Europe and the Far East are so far removed from those envisaged by Marx that many simply don't accept that the world has seen a communist state yet. So, it's very difficult to see how something that hasn't come into existence yet could have failed. We've already had this discussion once, Benny. Do you have anything new to add? |
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