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Post by thomas on May 9, 2023 10:09:16 GMT
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Post by thomas on May 9, 2023 10:18:08 GMT
Blow to electric car owners as nearly 40 PER CENT of free charging points disappear from Britain's roads after becoming too expensive to offer for nothing amid soaring energy costs
The number of free charging points has dropped from 5,715 to 3,568
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Post by Fairsociety on May 9, 2023 10:18:38 GMT
Strange you bring this up, at the weekend we were doing our shop and part of the carpark was closed off, they were taking away the charging points, so how does the logic work that they want to sell more electric cars, so instead of installing more charging points they are taking out the ones already there, it does beggar the question has anyone in any form of authority got any brains, or do they purposely employ incompetent people just so they can piss you off.
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Post by dodgydave on May 9, 2023 14:21:22 GMT
They were never going to stay free for ever where they...
They were "free" because the government / councils offered incentives to the providers, to encourage take up of EVs. Most of them are shite anyway because they are low powered.
We have two EVs, even with the current energy prices they are still cheaper to "fuel" than ICE vehicles. If you have a charger at home the saving are massive (50% of the price of petrol / diesel).
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Post by steppenwolf on May 10, 2023 6:48:17 GMT
We have two EVs, even with the current energy prices they are still cheaper to "fuel" than ICE vehicles. If you have a charger at home the saving are massive (50% of the price of petrol / diesel). That's not true. An average EV does about 3 miles per kWh at best, most do less. (Even a Mini struggles to do over 100 miles on a 32kWh battery). But let's be generous and call it 3 miles/kWh. 1kWh costs about 33p from your domestic supply. So it's costing you 11p/mile. You may be able to get it cheaper "off peak" but you then pay more for electricity used "not off peak". And it takes so long to charge on a 7kW domestic charger that you'll struggle to do it all off peak. Say an average car does 45mpg which is 12 miles/litre. A litre of petrol is about £1.45 now. So that's 12p/mile. So they're about the same now. But, of course, if you ever charge up at a public charger you'll be paying well over double what it costs to run a petrol car. |
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Post by dodgydave on May 10, 2023 12:20:36 GMT
We have two EVs, even with the current energy prices they are still cheaper to "fuel" than ICE vehicles. If you have a charger at home the saving are massive (50% of the price of petrol / diesel). That's not true. An average EV does about 3 miles per kWh at best, most do less. (Even a Mini struggles to do over 100 miles on a 32kWh battery). But let's be generous and call it 3 miles/kWh. 1kWh costs about 33p from your domestic supply. So it's costing you 11p/mile. You may be able to get it cheaper "off peak" but you then pay more for electricity used "not off peak". And it takes so long to charge on a 7kW domestic charger that you'll struggle to do it all off peak. Say an average car does 45mpg which is 12 miles/litre. A litre of petrol is about £1.45 now. So that's 12p/mile. So they're about the same now. But, of course, if you ever charge up at a public charger you'll be paying well over double what it costs to run a petrol car. You need to learn how to drive properly if you are getting 3 miles per kwh lol. You can easily get 4+ if you use regen properly and... drive properly. As for your off peak point, that is wrong too. Only an idiot charges once a week, you keep topping it up during off peak via an app. Don't get me wrong EVs do not make sense for everybody, but most people I know that have them have chargers at home and already have solar panels fitted so they are used to running the washing machine / dryer etc during daylight house so off peak tariffs work just fine. Lastly, most people in EVs will be running them through salary sacrifice schemes and will be making crazy tax, NI and pension savings that just aren't available for ICE vehicles. eg the wife has a £55,000 Merc, with charger installed, servicing, repairs, breakdown, tyres, windscreen and insurance for effectively £350 a month and there was NO DEPOSIT, and fueling bill has halved. |
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Post by steppenwolf on May 10, 2023 13:05:10 GMT
No. I was being generous when I gave an EV an average of 3 miles/kWh. It's actually more like 2.5 miles according to Car magazine - and you can take about 30% off that in winter or if you're doing a lot of motorway mileage or driving fast. Even a Mini EV struggles to get 3 miles/kWh when keeping below 55mph in the USA. They're just not efficient - which isn't surprising when you look at how heavy they are.
And who mentioned anything about charging once a week? Plainly if you do very low mileage and can always charge at home it may be no more expensive to run an EV than an efficient petrol engined car - like my last Porsche. But that's a very niche market. If you want a shopping trolley they work fine but that's all.
I agree there are some tax incentives to people who buy new EVs, but the reason for that must be obvious even to you. They're having a lot of difficulty selling these pups. I've seen 2 year old Mini EVs going for half new price. There are no free lunches DD. The sting is in the tail. When you try to sell your two lemons (and Mercs are real lemons) you'll find out the real cost of running them. People always forget depreciation. Meanwhile I sold my Porsche back to the garage I bought it from (new) for slightly more than the original purchase price 4 years ago. That's cheap motoring.
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Post by Pacifico on May 10, 2023 17:07:18 GMT
EV's are ideal for some people - for others they are not a suitable replacement for ICE vehicles.
Unfortunately the clowns in Westminster fail to understand that basic concept.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 10, 2023 20:48:45 GMT
The idea was never that we all drive electric but rather that most of us don't drive at all.
All part of the 15 minute city surveillance society coming our way very soon.
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Post by steppenwolf on May 11, 2023 7:19:37 GMT
Nevertheless I think the intention is to replace all ICE vehicles with electric or hydrogen - mainly electric. This simply won't work but I see no recognition of this fact in the government.
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Post by sheepy on May 11, 2023 7:27:21 GMT
The idea was never that we all drive electric but rather that most of us don't drive at all. All part of the 15 minute city surveillance society coming our way very soon. I think you are probably right on that one, all this driving is pointless the plebs don't need to drive anywhere in a utopian society. Of course the important people do plus they also need private jets and yachts these are a must, well because they are actually very,very important and need them to tell everyone else about being green around the globe, they will of course make you understand that by using them they are actually making up for it by making you more green! |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 11, 2023 10:12:40 GMT
They were never going to stay free for ever where they... They were "free" because the government / councils offered incentives to the providers, to encourage take up of EVs. Most of them are shite anyway because they are low powered. We have two EVs, even with the current energy prices they are still cheaper to "fuel" than ICE vehicles. If you have a charger at home the saving are massive (50% of the price of petrol / diesel). Tesco’s arrangement with PodPoint to provide free 7kw stations was funded from penalties imposed on Volkswagen after their diesel cheat device scam. Those funds have now run out so Tesco are not interested in being a charity The savings at home are far from massive compared to diesel. My top of the range Dacia Duster LAUREATE with switchable 2WD / 4WD Auto / 4WD Difflock does 520 miles in 2WD on a ten gallon tank. 52mpg. At 165p a litre that’s £7.50 a gallon coming out at about 14p a mile. The 65 plated ULEZ compliant Dacia cost me £7200 three months ago and replaced the 12 Plated 24Kw Nissan Leaf i bought two years ago when my amazing 64 plated 2WD Suzuki S Cross came to a sad end thanks to a git who didn't understand motorway roundabouts. The Leaf did three miles on one kilowatt with the lights wipers heater aircon and demister OFF. Four if you were going downhill which isn’t often in wales. The BEST price i could find to charge it was Cwmbran Car Park whose council were too thick to raise the price of the 3kw chargers from 14p so about 5p a mile. Next cheapest was LIDL who charged 26p so about 9p a mile. Octopus Energy were charging me 36p a unit - 12p a mile. My Dacia takes me over eight times as far as the leaf could, in warmth and comfort. I’ll happily pay the extra 2 or 3p a mile for that The only reason anyone would drive an EV today is Jeremy (k)Hunt has set the company car tax benefit to 4% of the £50,000 + OTR price while fucking you over for 38% of anything else (according to the man i bought my cars from for 20 years until six years ago, who i went to chat to before selling the Leaf (not to his new employer) |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 11, 2023 10:16:56 GMT
No. I was being generous when I gave an EV an average of 3 miles/kWh. It's actually more like 2.5 miles according to Car magazine - and you can take about 30% off that in winter or if you're doing a lot of motorway mileage or driving fast. Even a Mini EV struggles to get 3 miles/kWh when keeping below 55mph in the USA. They're just not efficient - which isn't surprising when you look at how heavy they are. And who mentioned anything about charging once a week? Plainly if you do very low mileage and can always charge at home it may be no more expensive to run an EV than an efficient petrol engined car - like my last Porsche. But that's a very niche market. If you want a shopping trolley they work fine but that's all. I agree there are some tax incentives to people who buy new EVs, but the reason for that must be obvious even to you. They're having a lot of difficulty selling these pups. I've seen 2 year old Mini EVs going for half new price. There are no free lunches DD. The sting is in the tail. When you try to sell your two lemons (and Mercs are real lemons) you'll find out the real cost of running them. People always forget depreciation. Meanwhile I sold my Porsche back to the garage I bought it from (new) for slightly more than the original purchase price 4 years ago. That's cheap motoring. My figure of 3 without any extras like heater, demister, lights, etc come from two years actually driving one in Wales. I agree with your estimate because i’ve got the mileage log somewhere in the Nissan Cloud to prove it. |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 11, 2023 10:21:10 GMT
That's not true. An average EV does about 3 miles per kWh at best, most do less. (Even a Mini struggles to do over 100 miles on a 32kWh battery). But let's be generous and call it 3 miles/kWh. 1kWh costs about 33p from your domestic supply. So it's costing you 11p/mile. You may be able to get it cheaper "off peak" but you then pay more for electricity used "not off peak". And it takes so long to charge on a 7kW domestic charger that you'll struggle to do it all off peak. Say an average car does 45mpg which is 12 miles/litre. A litre of petrol is about £1.45 now. So that's 12p/mile. So they're about the same now. But, of course, if you ever charge up at a public charger you'll be paying well over double what it costs to run a petrol car. You need to learn how to drive properly if you are getting 3 miles per kwh lol. You can easily get 4+ if you use regen properly and... drive properly. As for your off peak point, that is wrong too. Only an idiot charges once a week, you keep topping it up during off peak via an app. Don't get me wrong EVs do not make sense for everybody, but most people I know that have them have chargers at home and already have solar panels fitted so they are used to running the washing machine / dryer etc during daylight house so off peak tariffs work just fine. Lastly, most people in EVs will be running them through salary sacrifice schemes and will be making crazy tax, NI and pension savings that just aren't available for ICE vehicles. eg the wife has a £55,000 Merc, with charger installed, servicing, repairs, breakdown, tyres, windscreen and insurance for effectively £350 a month and there was NO DEPOSIT, and fueling bill has halved. So most people you know driving £50k EVs also have £25k solar panel installations to charge them and / or run their washing machines. Well that certainly shows motoring is going back to the twenties and thirties - the 1920’s when only the elite could be allowed them. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2023 10:29:36 GMT
The idea was never that we all drive electric but rather that most of us don't drive at all. All part of the 15 minute city surveillance society coming our way very soon. Driving would certainly be restricted to the reasonably well off, thereby greatly reducing congestion for said better off people, whilst the plebs are driven off the road and forced to rely on often piss poor public transport, where it even exists. I mean what about all those mostly lower income groups who live in flats or terraced housing or in closes with no immediate parking outside, all the ones without their own drives or garages? Not to mention the cost of buying the damned things in the first place. The aim as you suggest is to drive most of us off the road for the benefit of those for whom an electric car is within their price range and a viable option. Which no doubt includes most politicians but not a great many of the voters. At some point the public will wake up to this as deadlines draw nearer and there will be a backlash which might well force a change of plan. Because politicians value being in office rather more than they value reduced congestion for the few at the expense of the many. |
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