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Post by sandypine on May 7, 2023 13:49:35 GMT
Not many but you missed the point. If wages, working and living conditions improvement is the aim of the British left why would they not fight tooth and nail to stop the undercutting of those workers and the exploitation of foreign workers. In terms of Socialism and the aspirations of the Labour party it makes no sense whatsoever. Business loves it as it allows free selection of employees from a vast pool of willing workers sometimes enduring near slave conditions in their own country so they can come in, work at minimum wage and endure poor conditions as they would be scared to lose that job. These are all things the left are supposedly against. Your argument seems as convoluted and intricate as a Celtic knot. As far as I can see trade unions and labour are against exploitation and historically, the opening up of trades to non-affiliated brothers/comrades/workers as shown by demarcation disputes and Powell-supporting marches against immigration in the Docks and Smithfield. I guess it depends on whether one believes groups within labour organisations, trades unions and The Labour Party can be reactionary rather than progressive and caring for all… ft course caring for all is a laudable aim but it comes at a price and that price is clearly being paid by those who look to the Labour party as representing them, not the worldwide brotherhood of workers who will fall into line nicely at the demand of the globalists. It is a strange way to represent the working man when you present him with a plan for 1984 where he will have very little and be over the moon. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 7, 2023 14:00:35 GMT
Again Tescos in Ely yesterday was full of foreign young males buying huge amounts of food and booze. I pay tax twice, on my pension and on other income, i am paying for those criminals to come into this country, to feed them, get them drunk, commit crime, house them, fix their ailments and educate them. SO ARE YOU. The Tories are supposed to protect us from this sort of thing, not Labour. No chance mate, im spitting feathers. While the Tories spout lies about stopping it, the toleration of the British is amazing. I know ive posted something similar and i dont care, fuck the tories. I understand your angst Piglet, I think most people feel the same. I certainly do and my local Conservative MP knows what my feelings are, she also knows my feelings are reflected by most of her constituents. The thing is, there's something at the back of mind that's continually nagging away at me - how much worse would it be if pro mass immigration, pro EU left wing Starmer was in charge? |
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Post by bancroft on May 7, 2023 19:12:11 GMT
I will reluctantly vote Tory as don't think they will take us back into the EU, although Starmer says he won't if Labour revolt against him we could go back in and that would cause trouble.
If another centre Right group comes along to protect our culture and makes sense on the economy they will get my vote until then regretfully the Tories.
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Post by Orac on May 8, 2023 9:08:42 GMT
Again Tescos in Ely yesterday was full of foreign young males buying huge amounts of food and booze. I pay tax twice, on my pension and on other income, i am paying for those criminals to come into this country, to feed them, get them drunk, commit crime, house them, fix their ailments and educate them. SO ARE YOU. The Tories are supposed to protect us from this sort of thing, not Labour. No chance mate, im spitting feathers. While the Tories spout lies about stopping it, the toleration of the British is amazing. I know ive posted something similar and i dont care, fuck the tories. I understand your angst Piglet, I think most people feel the same. I certainly do and my local Conservative MP knows what my feelings are, she also knows my feelings are reflected by most of her constituents. The thing is, there's something at the back of mind that's continually nagging away at me - how much worse would it be if pro mass immigration, pro EU left wing Starmer was in charge? I think Tory voters have been more than patient. I think they understand that a flow of information from constituents , supporters etc, can't be instantaneously and magically transformed into practical action overnight. The thing is, it has now been twenty or more years now with the party going relentlessly in the opposite direction. When do you give up on an organisation and conclude it can't be reformed to do its job? |
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Post by piglet on May 8, 2023 13:11:42 GMT
Now, Mag, now.
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Post by andrewbrown on May 9, 2023 4:22:14 GMT
How do you know that the men in Tesco were asylum seekers? |
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Post by Toreador on May 9, 2023 5:29:12 GMT
I will reluctantly vote Tory as don't think they will take us back into the EU, although Starmer says he won't if Labour revolt against him we could go back in and that would cause trouble. If another centre Right group comes along to protect our culture and makes sense on the economy they will get my vote until then regretfully the Tories. Try Reform UK, they're not nearly as right-wing as some would have you believe. |
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Post by Toreador on May 9, 2023 5:30:24 GMT
How do you know that the men in Tesco were asylum seekers? How do you know they're not? |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 9, 2023 6:12:26 GMT
Many people overvalue their contributions. If genuine workers turn up willing to work for the offered pay without quibble, who’s to say they’re wrong…? So we should allow mass immigration from Africa to people who are willing to work for $5 a day? i thought we sent them the work wherever possible (adidas, nike …) |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 9, 2023 6:33:52 GMT
Well this is the eternal problem with business bringing in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, it has been happening for centuries and what I never understand is why those supposedly on the left are so enamoured with the process. Strange observation. How many bosses of these businesses who bring in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, or these “undercut British Workers” do you think are of the Left…? Quite a few labour party donors but that was on Blair’s watch so hardly ‘the left’ While Tory governments enjoy doing it for reasons of profit, real left leaning politicians do it for reasons of self loathing or demand that the united kingdom be lowered to the world standing of some african shithole so the likes of David Lammy can feel at home. Literally FIFTY years ago i was taught why the likes of Gordon Brown worshipped the dogma as the new sliced bread. Where a country has a policy of allowing large scale immigration of men (it works for women too but fifty years ago O level economics recognised only one ‘profession’ immigrant women worked in) from countries whose cost of living is radically less than our own, huge numbers of such immigrant workers send sizeable chunks of the money they earn home to the family they leave behind. This action has two significant impacts. In THIS country the impact of all that money leaving the UK works to reduce the money supply and put a brake on inflation, in the country from which the workers come it serves the exact opposite, causing inflation and money supply problems. Now to be fair at the time i was taught that as part of my O level economics course that also taught me why the banking industry is such a scam and why tories love fiat currency, UK inflation was running wild at about 15% and MEXICAN immigrants in the US some legal, some not so, were the model that showed the money supply stranglehold, but all those Polish plumbers on Blair’s watch converting pounds to Zlotties worked wonders fir Brown’s book cookery. |
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Post by bancroft on May 9, 2023 12:19:20 GMT
I will reluctantly vote Tory as don't think they will take us back into the EU, although Starmer says he won't if Labour revolt against him we could go back in and that would cause trouble. If another centre Right group comes along to protect our culture and makes sense on the economy they will get my vote until then regretfully the Tories. Try Reform UK, they're not nearly as right-wing as some would have you believe. I actually think they are too centrist the last time I looked. |
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Post by andrewbrown on May 9, 2023 18:34:27 GMT
How do you know that the men in Tesco were asylum seekers? How do you know they're not? I don’t, but isn't that rather my point? |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 19:03:16 GMT
How do you know they're not? I don’t, but isn't that rather my point? He has form and is the one person on this forum I would call out for racist assumptions. He has spoken in support of the white racist regime of Ian Smith in Rhodesia, and referred to the legal profession as a semitic environment. So seeing a group of foreign looking, foreign language speakers in Tesco and the immediate assumption is that they are asylum seekers. It fits a pattern with him. |
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Post by Toreador on May 10, 2023 6:09:20 GMT
I don’t, but isn't that rather my point? He has form and is the one person on this forum I would call out for racist assumptions. He has spoken in support of the white racist regime of Ian Smith in Rhodesia, and referred to the legal profession as a semitic environment. So seeing a group of foreign looking, foreign language speakers in Tesco and the immediate assumption is that they are asylum seekers. It fits a pattern with him. lol.....laughing at your ignorance and faux outrage. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 10, 2023 9:29:07 GMT
I understand your angst Piglet, I think most people feel the same. I certainly do and my local Conservative MP knows what my feelings are, she also knows my feelings are reflected by most of her constituents. The thing is, there's something at the back of mind that's continually nagging away at me - how much worse would it be if pro mass immigration, pro EU left wing Starmer was in charge? I think Tory voters have been more than patient. I think they understand that a flow of information from constituents , supporters etc, can't be instantaneously and magically transformed into practical action overnight. The thing is, it has now been twenty or more years now with the party going relentlessly in the opposite direction. When do you give up on an organisation and conclude it can't be reformed to do its job? That's a perfectly reasonable point of view, and I have to agree. But, isn't there always a but, who will replace the Tories? Mags, the thought of a left wing, pro EU, pro mass immigration, Starmer led Labour government is frightening, and I'm not overstating it. He will enter into a coalition with the LibDems to get into number 10 and if there's anything more worrying than a Labour government, it's a Labour/LibDem coalition. Ed Davey has already said the only way the LibDems would support a coalition is if Starmer held a second EU referendum, and believe me, he will. No, regardless of what anyone thinks of the government, the fact is, the Tories are better than the alternative. |
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