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Post by Pacifico on May 6, 2023 21:07:38 GMT
Sorry, but I have never believed it is about poor pay, it is about our own people who want the easier jobs, the jobs that are not repetetive, the jobs where you dont have to work weekends, or bend your back, or get wet, or work in refrigerated temperatures, the jobs that Europeans WILL DO, but our own people CANT DO Thats an interesting argument for 'Vote Labour' - who cares if you are on poverty pay, its your own fault for not wanting to work or being trained enough.
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Post by sandypine on May 6, 2023 21:20:39 GMT
You have not got to grips with why the stats above are as they are. The locals are holding out for better wages, the Eastern Europeans are coming in happy with the pay levels. Is this the Socialist utopia we hear about? Many people overvalue their contributions. If genuine workers turn up willing to work for the offered pay without quibble, who’s to say they’re wrong…? Well this is the eternal problem with business bringing in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, it has been happening for centuries and what I never understand is why those supposedly on the left are so enamoured with the process.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 6, 2023 21:25:03 GMT
Sorry, but I have never believed it is about poor pay, it is about our own people who want the easier jobs, the jobs that are not repetetive, the jobs where you dont have to work weekends, or bend your back, or get wet, or work in refrigerated temperatures, the jobs that Europeans WILL DO, but our own people CANT DO Thats an interesting argument for 'Vote Labour' - who cares if you are on poverty pay, its your own fault for not wanting to work or being trained enough.
It's the cognitive dissonance of the left: They claim to want one thing while acting in a way that practically guarantees the opposite.
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Post by sandypine on May 6, 2023 21:31:47 GMT
You have not got to grips with why the stats above are as they are. The locals are holding out for better wages, the Eastern Europeans are coming in happy with the pay levels. Is this the Socialist utopia we hear about? Ever heard of the National Minimum Wage ?, it is a concept introduced by a Labour government and which was opposed by the Tories. No one can pay less than the NMW, and so for the Poles who pick veg in the fields of Camridgeshire, or pack meat products in the factories of Lincolnshire, a 40 hour week = £416.00 per week, but bear in mind that most employers offer higher rates for backshifts, nightshifts, weekend shifts and overtime. BALANCE ... If our farmers, growers, producers and manufacturers pay more, the end product costs more, and if the end product costs more, it gives our competitors an advantage. Sorry, but I have never believed it is about poor pay, it is about our own people who want the easier jobs, the jobs that are not repetetive, the jobs where you dont have to work weekends, or bend your back, or get wet, or work in refrigerated temperatures, the jobs that Europeans WILL DO, but our own people CANT DO The NMW was a concept whereby foreign Labour could be brought in and no one could supposedly complain about foreign workers undercutting Brits. The upshot of it was however that some wages rose but the level of many wages came down relative to what they had been and hovered around the NMW or just above. It had the effect of depressing on average the working man's wages. AS regards jobs people will not do I can refute that personally and with experience of many others who did the same, worked weekends, got wet, got cold, worked nights, bent my back more often than was good for me (after one shift I got home and could only roll out of the car) and most others there were Brits.
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Post by Pacifico on May 6, 2023 21:38:56 GMT
Many people overvalue their contributions. If genuine workers turn up willing to work for the offered pay without quibble, who’s to say they’re wrong…? Well this is the eternal problem with business bringing in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, it has been happening for centuries and what I never understand is why those supposedly on the left are so enamoured with the process. Abolish poverty and thats the end of the Labour Party..
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Post by johnofgwent on May 6, 2023 23:21:57 GMT
Ely - is a Fens town, in East Cambridgeshire, part of a belt in England which has the highest concentration of European migrants in the whole of the UK, the belt includes Peterborough and Boston. Levels of unemployment or inactivity amongst the European migrants are very low, in fact lower than amongst the British born population. From personal experience I have found Poles, Latvians, Czechs and others who have come here to WORK and make the UK home, to be overwhelmingly decent, hard working people, mostly young, mostly working in jobs that tend to be not very popular amongst our own people. No group of people are perfect, and on the downside,the most common crimes involving Eastern Europeans tend to involve alcohol. and there was me thinking it was a sinkhole council estate in cardiff where the locals try to tow caravans with their mobility scooters www.dailymail.co.uk/video/newsVideonews/video-2916397/Video-Two-men-spotted-trying-tow-caravan-mobility-scooter.html
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Post by Toreador on May 7, 2023 5:41:21 GMT
Ely - is a Fens town, in East Cambridgeshire, part of a belt in England which has the highest concentration of European migrants in the whole of the UK, the belt includes Peterborough and Boston. Levels of unemployment or inactivity amongst the European migrants are very low, in fact lower than amongst the British born population. From personal experience I have found Poles, Latvians, Czechs and others who have come here to WORK and make the UK home, to be overwhelmingly decent, hard working people, mostly young, mostly working in jobs that tend to be not very popular amongst our own people. No group of people are perfect, and on the downside,the most common crimes involving Eastern Europeans tend to involve alcohol. I spent 15 years living in the South Lincolnshire fens, right from the start and at the heart of East Europe immigration. I know you are talking bollox, I know that's how you always talk.
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Post by patman post on May 7, 2023 9:46:43 GMT
Many people overvalue their contributions. If genuine workers turn up willing to work for the offered pay without quibble, who’s to say they’re wrong…? So we should allow mass immigration from Africa to people who are willing to work for $5 a day? Why direct that supposed bizarre scenario at me? Surely you realise that cannot happen unless, at the least, the minimum wage laws, the immigration laws and the country’s currency are changed…
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Post by patman post on May 7, 2023 9:51:48 GMT
Many people overvalue their contributions. If genuine workers turn up willing to work for the offered pay without quibble, who’s to say they’re wrong…? Well this is the eternal problem with business bringing in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, it has been happening for centuries and what I never understand is why those supposedly on the left are so enamoured with the process. Strange observation. How many bosses of these businesses who bring in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, or these “undercut British Workers” do you think are of the Left…?
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Post by sandypine on May 7, 2023 10:27:39 GMT
Well this is the eternal problem with business bringing in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, it has been happening for centuries and what I never understand is why those supposedly on the left are so enamoured with the process. Strange observation. How many bosses of these businesses who bring in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, or these “undercut British Workers” do you think are of the Left…? Not many but you missed the point. If wages, working and living conditions improvement is the aim of the British left why would they not fight tooth and nail to stop the undercutting of those workers and the exploitation of foreign workers. In terms of Socialism and the aspirations of the Labour party it makes no sense whatsoever. Business loves it as it allows free selection of employees from a vast pool of willing workers sometimes enduring near slave conditions in their own country so they can come in, work at minimum wage and endure poor conditions as they would be scared to lose that job. These are all things the left are supposedly against.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2023 11:11:53 GMT
Ten years ago in Boston
Controversy surrounded the fact that Boston had been found to have the highest concentration of European migrants than any other town in the United Kingdom.
Boston is by tradition, the centre for a wide area of farming, agricultural and food processing industries, and associated industries such as horticulture etc.
The charge or accusation was that Europeans are (1) taking our jobs, and (2) driving down local wages, except that most of the jobs were on a basic rate equivelant to the National Minimum Wage, which kind of does not add up with the accusation of "driving down wages".
Here's a suprising fact: The then Conservative MP for Boston "Mark Simmonds", used factual evidence to blow away the suggestion that Europeans were "taking our jobs"; He quoted figures from the local Job Centre, which showed that there were 1,300 vaccancies, he then suggested that if the 10,000 Europeans left the area ( almost all of which were working ), he asked WHO WOULD FILL THE VACCANCIES. ?
The uncomfortable truth
Press and journalists who visited Boston interviewed locals, including European migrants, and a BBC journalist asked Polish migrant Kasia Augustu, who said this .... "If you want a job, you will get one. The problem with English people is they can't keep the job. They take too many sick days and find it easier to take benefits rather than work."
The anti-migrant brigade have always promoted the lie that migrants either take our jobs, or drive down wages, and it has always been largely untrue. Evidence says otherwise
The fact is that migrants from Europe have gone in larger numbers to places where work is easily available, and stayed away from areas where work is scarce. This is the reason for higher proportions of European migrants in agricultural and food processing areas such as LIncolnshire, Cambridgeshire and North Yorkshire.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 7, 2023 11:14:24 GMT
Abolish poverty and thats the end of the Labour Party... Yep, the Labour Party have always had a vested interest in keeping people poor. They are the enemy of the working class.
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Post by piglet on May 7, 2023 12:38:23 GMT
The people i am talking about are boat people, not legally processed fruit pickers. They are criminals by definition, they are here illegally, do we have laws or dont we.? Not only that, we pay them to break the law FFS.
Eastern europeans are hard workers, i am a first generation immigrant, my father was from beloruss, my mother italian. Both worked hard, harder than british people, they were grateful to britain for having them , and loved this country, they would have been wearing union jacks yesterday.
I said in a previous post that if i was prime minister, i would do a party political broadcast, show the camera the human rights bollocks, then on camera, wipe my ass with it. British people need a bill of rights, rights not to be used and abused. Fook the law, we are free, we can do what we want, but wont do it. Another reason not to vote tory.
As has been said, all parties say one thing and do another, prime in this case.
We are not stupid. We vote not for the best, but least worse. I give up, my vote has been stolen too often, like this board the vast majority have common sense, the government does not, it pays lip service, and has an agenda that is not publicised.
My vote will go to the person who says they will change the law tomorrow, in favour of you and me, the often abused "people", boat people "OUT TOMORROW". it wont happen, the enemy is within, deeply ingrained professing to be " good", and controls parliament, as has been seen.
So much of life is a mystery to me, i dont understand how socialists think, its all nonsense to me, its like thay are aliens, or i am. I am family orientated, look after family, that includes Britain. If the law was changed id arrest those people, the boat people, today. Out tomorrow, by boat.
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Post by andrewbrown on May 7, 2023 13:20:56 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. My question is why do you presume that the people in Tesco were asylum seekers?
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Post by patman post on May 7, 2023 13:37:51 GMT
Strange observation. How many bosses of these businesses who bring in foreign labour to undercut British Workers, or these “undercut British Workers” do you think are of the Left…? Not many but you missed the point. If wages, working and living conditions improvement is the aim of the British left why would they not fight tooth and nail to stop the undercutting of those workers and the exploitation of foreign workers. In terms of Socialism and the aspirations of the Labour party it makes no sense whatsoever. Business loves it as it allows free selection of employees from a vast pool of willing workers sometimes enduring near slave conditions in their own country so they can come in, work at minimum wage and endure poor conditions as they would be scared to lose that job. These are all things the left are supposedly against. Your argument seems as convoluted and intricate as a Celtic knot. As far as I can see trade unions and labour are against exploitation and historically, the opening up of trades to non-affiliated brothers/comrades/workers as shown by demarcation disputes and Powell-supporting marches against immigration in the Docks and Smithfield. I guess it depends on whether one believes groups within labour organisations, trades unions and The Labour Party can be reactionary rather than progressive and caring for all…
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