|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 3, 2023 11:03:48 GMT
He didn't have a plan, he believed that oppressed workers would overthrow capitalists and take control over the means of production bringing with it a classless society of shared ownership. No money, no private property and absolutely no competition. And you think what he thought is close to coming true! Marx pointed out that all societies evolve along socialist lines. He thought that capitalism would evolve too. Like Darwin, he had a theory of evolution. The difference was that his theory related to societies, not species. Do I look at conditions that exist for workers today and say that they are in the state of evolution Marx recognised. Yes, I do. I think it's undeniable that workers have better conditions today than they did in Marx's era. You obviously don't. That's fine. Nobody has any expectations of you, Bubbles. The only expectations I have of you is to sound-off knowledgeable and wind-people up with your contrarian views after a bit of light reading, whether that be transgender issues, law, EU or Marxism. Knock yourself out Darl. But as is the case with your over-opinionated "futuristic facts", when will society become classless, the use of money no more, competition ceased and private property relinquished? |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 3, 2023 11:05:36 GMT
Both gorrilla and gammon are racial slurs when used as an insult. Both are unacceptable terms, but casual racism is ok in the minds of cultist remoaners. Attack arguments and views, not people's racial characteristics. The term gammon refers to outrage not race. Going red in the face because trannies use the ladies toilet etc. That’s your interpretation. Everyone else thinks it’s a racial slur . |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:05:44 GMT
Marx pointed out that all societies evolve along socialist lines. He thought that capitalism would evolve too. Like Darwin, he had a theory of evolution. The difference was that his theory related to societies, not species. Do I look at conditions that exist for workers today and say that they are in the state of evolution Marx recognised. Yes, I do. I think it's undeniable that workers have better conditions today than they did in Marx's era. You obviously don't. That's fine. Nobody has any expectations of you, Bubbles. The only expectations I have of you is to sound-off knowledgeable and wind-people up with your contrarian views after a bit of light reading, whether that be transgender issues, law, EU or Marxism. Knock yourself out Darl. But as is the case with your over-opinionated "futuristic facts", when will society become classless, the use of money no more, competition ceased and private property relinquished? Either you can see that capitalism has become more socialist since Marx’s day or you can’t. To deny it is like denying that 2 + 2 is 4. Where are the right-wing Orwell botherers when they’re needed? |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on May 3, 2023 11:08:52 GMT
The term gammon refers to outrage not race. Going red in the face because trannies use the ladies toilet etc. That’s your interpretation. Everyone else thinks it’s a racial slur . Only gammons think it's a racial slur. It's one more thing for them to be outraged about. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 3, 2023 11:09:33 GMT
Darling thinks Marx is a kind of mystic Meg. Whatever happens, it still fits into whatever Marx predicated .
Capitalism isn’t moving toward socialism whereas Communism has morphed into capitalism every time it was clear Communism didn’t work.
Oh,I forgot . I wasn’t REAL communism 😂😂
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:12:52 GMT
Darling thinks Marx is a kind of mystic Meg. Whatever happens, it still fits into whatever Marx predicated . Capitalism isn’t moving toward socialism whereas Communism has morphed into capitalism every time it was clear Communism didn’t work. Oh,I forgot . I wasn’t REAL communism 😂😂 Russia wasn't Marxism, Benny. The end point of the evolution Marx predicted is a classless society. Russia was the opposite of a classless society. On one hand there was the ruled (the masses), on the other hand there was the rulers (the elite). That’s two classes right there. You would have to be stupid to claim that Russia was Marx’s classless society. Marx’s classless society doesn’t have a ruling class. It is populist. There is only one class, and that class makes all decisions by referendums. That class takes over the means of production insofar as it decides what is produced. It decides whether more and better housing must be produced. It decides whether more hospitals should be produced. Under unrestrained capitalism, these things would only be produced if they made a profit for capitalists. We don't live in unrestrained capitalism, because capitalism has evolved along the lines Marx predicted. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on May 3, 2023 11:14:53 GMT
A 'democratic Communist state' how does that work? The whole point of democracy is people are free to change those social structures upon which society rests. We see today that there is an inability to change anything as control is wrested away from people and policies are put in place and society is constructed in a way over which the electorate have no control. Design is a top down imposition which is the hallmark of a Communist state. One may have a say but one cannot change anything other than tinker at the edges een if the majority of the people so wish. I suppose, it works on the basis that turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Top down imposition was the hallmark of administration in Russia. I absolutely agree. But that wasn't Marxism. A Marxist state is populist, with all the decisions being democratically made by the workers. As has been pointed out, Marx was adamant that communism could never work in a country that had no tradition of democracy. He would never have thought that anyone would even attempt communism in a country like Russia, as that would be bound to fail. But Turkeys can vote for Christmas if they are led to believe they are voting for a life in the sun, that has been all too evident throughout history. The people of Iran voted for an Islamic state and found out they could not vote to change it. Marxism requires a certain outlook for and from all as regards society, most people only have that outlook in varying degrees. Jobs for all and security for all requires imposition as those that work hard will be keeping those that do not and that always causes friction. There has to be a balance between what you earn and what you keep and how much you contribute to society to protect the system. People adhere to rules because that is a self protection action. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:16:05 GMT
I suppose, it works on the basis that turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Top down imposition was the hallmark of administration in Russia. I absolutely agree. But that wasn't Marxism. A Marxist state is populist, with all the decisions being democratically made by the workers. As has been pointed out, Marx was adamant that communism could never work in a country that had no tradition of democracy. He would never have thought that anyone would even attempt communism in a country like Russia, as that would be bound to fail. But Turkeys can vote for Christmas if they are led to believe they are voting for a life in the sun, that has been all too evident throughout history. The people of Iran voted for an Islamic state and found out they could not vote to change it. Marxism requires a certain outlook for and from all as regards society, most people only have that outlook in varying degrees. Jobs for all and security for all requires imposition as those that work hard will be keeping those that do not and that always causes friction. There has to be a balance between what you earn and what you keep and how much you contribute to society to protect the system. People adhere to rules because that is a self protection action. People earn wages in Marx's society. If you don't work, you don't get paid. Duh! |
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 3, 2023 11:18:09 GMT
The only expectations I have of you is to sound-off knowledgeable and wind-people up with your contrarian views after a bit of light reading, whether that be transgender issues, law, EU or Marxism. Knock yourself out Darl. But as is the case with your over-opinionated "futuristic facts", when will society become classless, the use of money no more, competition ceased and private property relinquished? Either you can see that capitalism has become more socialist since Marx’s day or you can’t. To deny it is like denying that 2 + 2 is 4. Where are the right-wing Orwell botherers when they’re needed? Whoiney, Marx's principles are wedded more to communism than socialism. So claiming a feather in the cap on behalf of Marx because socialism is symbiotic with capitalism hardly means we're heading to the Marxist utopia you believe us to be. Doh! |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 3, 2023 11:18:52 GMT
That’s your interpretation. Everyone else thinks it’s a racial slur . Only gammons think it's a racial slur. It's one more thing for them to be outraged about. Nope. Only you think it’s not a racial slur. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:20:11 GMT
Either you can see that capitalism has become more socialist since Marx’s day or you can’t. To deny it is like denying that 2 + 2 is 4. Where are the right-wing Orwell botherers when they’re needed? Whoiney, Marx's principles are wedded more to communism than socialism. Marx said that capitalism would evolve through socialism to communism. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:21:21 GMT
Only gammons think it's a racial slur. It's one more thing for them to be outraged about. Nope. Only you think it’s not a racial slur. Were the gammon remarks about about Angela Rayner's 'ginger growler' a racial slur? Are blonde jokes a racial slur? |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on May 3, 2023 11:21:28 GMT
But Turkeys can vote for Christmas if they are led to believe they are voting for a life in the sun, that has been all too evident throughout history. The people of Iran voted for an Islamic state and found out they could not vote to change it. Marxism requires a certain outlook for and from all as regards society, most people only have that outlook in varying degrees. Jobs for all and security for all requires imposition as those that work hard will be keeping those that do not and that always causes friction. There has to be a balance between what you earn and what you keep and how much you contribute to society to protect the system. People adhere to rules because that is a self protection action. People earn wages in Marx's society. If you don't work, you don't get paid. Duh! Which is the point. If you do not get paid what happens? The final sanction is you and your family die. So people will work and will work as directed by the state which will be the arbiter of all that is required. It encourages centralised planning which usually ends up as a disaster. We have central planning on house building developing and it will be a disaster for many communities. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on May 3, 2023 11:21:35 GMT
Only gammons think it's a racial slur. It's one more thing for them to be outraged about. Nope. Only you think it’s not a racial slur. Only gammons are going red in the face over the term. |
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 3, 2023 11:22:05 GMT
Whoiney, Marx's principles are wedded more to communism than socialism. Marx said that capitalism would evolve through socialism to communism. Yes, and you probably believe that to and no doubt this will be another one of your 'In the future I will be right one day' arguments... |
|
