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Post by Bentley on May 3, 2023 11:22:34 GMT
Darling thinks Marx is a kind of mystic Meg. Whatever happens, it still fits into whatever Marx predicated . Capitalism isn’t moving toward socialism whereas Communism has morphed into capitalism every time it was clear Communism didn’t work. Oh,I forgot . I wasn’t REAL communism 😂😂 Russia wasn't Marxism, Benny. The end point of the evolution Marx predicted is a classless society. Russia was the opposite of a classless society. On one hand there was the ruled (the masses), on the other hand there was the rulers (the elite). That’s two classes right there. You would have to be stupid to claim that Russia was Marx’s classless society. Marx’s classless society doesn’t have a ruling class. It is populist. There is only one class, and that class makes all decisions by referendums. That class takes over the means of production insofar as it decides what is produced. It decides whether more and better housing must be produced. It decides whether more hospitals should be produced. Under unrestrained capitalism, these things would only be produced if they made a profit for capitalists. We don't live in unrestrained capitalism, because capitalism has evolved along the lines Marx predicted. The USSR and China were examples of Communism. It didn’t last long and millions died due to this experiment. Lefties like you want to make the same mistake on the basis that neither Russia or China got it right .Darjeeling. |
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Post by Vinny on May 3, 2023 11:22:56 GMT
It refers to appearance, it is phrase used by outraged remoaning lunatics.
The world has moved on, they have not.
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Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:23:05 GMT
People earn wages in Marx's society. If you don't work, you don't get paid. Duh! Which is the point. If you do not get paid what happens? The final sanction is you and your family die. So people will work and will work as directed by the state which will be the arbiter of all that is required. It encourages centralised planning which usually ends up as a disaster. We have central planning on house building developing and it will be a disaster for many communities. Well, if you don't work in a capitalist society, you 'earn' less than workers. I imagine it would be the same in a Marxist society. |
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Post by Bentley on May 3, 2023 11:23:10 GMT
Whoiney, Marx's principles are wedded more to communism than socialism. Marx said that capitalism would evolve through socialism to communism. He got that one wrong then. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:24:09 GMT
Russia wasn't Marxism, Benny. The end point of the evolution Marx predicted is a classless society. Russia was the opposite of a classless society. On one hand there was the ruled (the masses), on the other hand there was the rulers (the elite). That’s two classes right there. You would have to be stupid to claim that Russia was Marx’s classless society. Marx’s classless society doesn’t have a ruling class. It is populist. There is only one class, and that class makes all decisions by referendums. That class takes over the means of production insofar as it decides what is produced. It decides whether more and better housing must be produced. It decides whether more hospitals should be produced. Under unrestrained capitalism, these things would only be produced if they made a profit for capitalists. We don't live in unrestrained capitalism, because capitalism has evolved along the lines Marx predicted. The USSR and China were examples of Communism. It didn’t last long and millions died due to this experiment. Lefties like you want to make the same mistake on the basis that neither Russia or China got it right .Darjeeling. You can call Russia and China whatever you like. If you describe them as Marxist classless societies you would be wrong, though. Those countries have at least two classes: the rulers and the ruled. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:25:25 GMT
Marx said that capitalism would evolve through socialism to communism. He got that one wrong then. How do you know. We know that capitalism is evolving on a socialist trajectory (unless you also want to claim children are still being sent up chimneys). If it continues on that trajectory, Marx's utopia will be achieved. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 3, 2023 11:29:12 GMT
He got that one wrong then. How do you know. We know that capitalism is evolving on a socialist trajectory (unless you also want to claim children are being sent up chimneys). If it continues on that trajectory, Marx's utopia will be achieved. On serious note, because you are known as a bit of an attention seeking WUM. Do you believe Marx's utopia will be achieved? |
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Post by Montegriffo on May 3, 2023 11:30:32 GMT
It refers to appearance, it is phrase used by outraged remoaning lunatics. The world has moved on, they have not. Is it a racist slur when Prince Harry is referred to as a ginger wanker? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:30:40 GMT
How do you know. We know that capitalism is evolving on a socialist trajectory (unless you also want to claim children are being sent up chimneys). If it continues on that trajectory, Marx's utopia will be achieved. On serious note, because you are known as a bit of an attention seeking WUM. Do you believe Marx's utopia will be achieved? Attention seeking WUMs are people too, Bubbles. |
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Post by sandypine on May 3, 2023 11:31:49 GMT
Which is the point. If you do not get paid what happens? The final sanction is you and your family die. So people will work and will work as directed by the state which will be the arbiter of all that is required. It encourages centralised planning which usually ends up as a disaster. We have central planning on house building developing and it will be a disaster for many communities. Well, if you don't work in a capitalist society, you 'earn' less than workers. I imagine it would be the same in a Marxist society. Well that is not really true, many workers 'earn' far less than non workers. So in reality nothing changes except those that work will be taxed more and the central planners will adopt the trappings of an elite. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 3, 2023 11:32:44 GMT
On serious note, because you are known as a bit of an attention seeking WUM. Do you believe Marx's utopia will be achieved? Attention seeking WUMs are people too, Bubbles. Yes I know Darling. Can you answer the question please. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:34:20 GMT
Well, if you don't work in a capitalist society, you 'earn' less than workers. I imagine it would be the same in a Marxist society. Well that is not really true, many workers 'earn' far less than non workers. So in reality nothing changes except those that work will be taxed more and the central planners will adopt the trappings of an elite. What? Surplus is redistributed under Marxism. Everyone gets what they need for a comfortable, long, and healthy life. There won't be people with two or three homes, while others have no home at all, if that's what you mean. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 3, 2023 11:36:04 GMT
It refers to appearance, it is phrase used by outraged remoaning lunatics. The world has moved on, they have not. Is it a racist slur when Prince Harry is referred to as a ginger wanker? Is it a racist slur when a vegetarian is referred to as a pale-faced herbivore? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 3, 2023 11:39:57 GMT
Attention seeking WUMs are people too, Bubbles. Yes I know Darling. Can you answer the question please. Do I believe Marx's utopia will be achieved? Well, the evolution he recognised is clearly happening, so, if society survives, I imagine it will. Marxist commentators are not in agreement on whether that utopia will ever arrive. Some say that climate change is being caused by capitalism, and that the world might not see any kind of future society, let alone a Marxist one. Others say that capitalism causes wars in its endless pursuit for markets, and that the world will be destroyed in a nuclear holocaust long before a Marxist state emerges. Obviously, I don't know whether these are true. But, supposing that neither of those things happen, it could still be many generations before the Marxist state evolves. |
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Post by Bentley on May 3, 2023 11:41:49 GMT
The USSR and China were examples of Communism. It didn’t last long and millions died due to this experiment. Lefties like you want to make the same mistake on the basis that neither Russia or China got it right .Darjeeling. You can call Russia and China whatever you like. If you describe them as Marxist classless societies you would be wrong, though. Those countries have at least two classes: the rulers and the ruled. They were communist . The fact they they didn’t become the wet dream leftie utopia( they NEVER do) seems to have passed the lefties by. Every excuse but no recognition that Communism ultimately doesn’t work. |
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