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Post by sheepy on May 1, 2023 14:38:12 GMT
Been there, done that - got the Shilling.. Ok so you joined up and served. Fair enough. But thst is part of the process of joining up and receiving payment to serve as a member of the Armed Forces. Something that isn’t respected anything like as much here as it is across the pond, but then again until Blair kicked off his warmongering we hadn’t got involved in anything as unpleasant as Vietnam for a fair old while But this is different. Someone - i can’t imagine this is Charlie’s idea - wants the average citizen to swear an oath of fealty to a jerk whose morals are less than stellar and who wants to see everything that made this country worth defending in his mum’s first decades and his grandad’s before that flushed down the toilet. I was rather proud to be in the business of giving our armed forces the tools to do the job. I tried my damndest to make sure when the user reached the point where there was no alternative but to show the other side how well i’d done my job that it did not disappoint, but today ? I wouldn't bother, the place isn’t worth defending any more. There is an almighty difference in the Queen swearing an allegiance to a country and a country swearing an allegiance to a king, it is arrogant and his usual self centred bullshit, just saying. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 1, 2023 14:52:08 GMT
Of course not. I wouldn't swear allegiance to anyone or anything. Furthermore, I'd guess not many will, other than a few sad gammons standing to attention in front of the telly. I guess you're a conscientious objector then Walter? |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 1, 2023 14:55:45 GMT
Are you going to swear an oath to support the King next week?? No, not me. Like others I've done it before, but I'm not particularly keen on Charlie. |
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Post by walterpaisley on May 1, 2023 15:29:11 GMT
I guess you're a conscientious objector then Walter? Not even that, really.. I'm not going to "object" if someone else wants to do it, because it's nothing to do with me, and won't affect the happy course of my life one bit. It's simply not something I would ever, personally, consider doing. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 1, 2023 15:38:01 GMT
I guess you're a conscientious objector then Walter? Not even that, really.. I'm not going to "object" if someone else wants to do it, because it's nothing to do with me, and won't affect the happy course of my life one bit. It's simply not something I would ever, personally, consider doing. So if the country was threatened you wouldn't object to other people defending it and indeed defending you, but you wouldn't want to do it yourself. |
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Post by walterpaisley on May 1, 2023 15:58:20 GMT
So if the country was threatened you wouldn't object to other people defending it and indeed defending you, but you wouldn't want to do it yourself. What does that have to do with the matter under discussion? There's a bit of a gap between fighting an existential threat and pledging loyalty to an elderly, tax-dodging philanderer. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 1, 2023 16:35:40 GMT
So if the country was threatened you wouldn't object to other people defending it and indeed defending you, but you wouldn't want to do it yourself. What does that have to do with the matter under discussion? There's a bit of a gap between fighting an existential threat and pledging loyalty to an elderly, tax-dodging philanderer. I asked if you were a conscientious objector. You said... I'm not going to "object" if someone else wants to do it. |
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Post by walterpaisley on May 1, 2023 16:47:28 GMT
Well, I'm not going to answer because, in the unlikely event of the hypothetical scenario you dreamed up actually coming to pass, I have no idea WHAT choice I'd make.
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Post by Pacifico on May 1, 2023 17:39:21 GMT
Been there, done that - got the Shilling.. Ok so you joined up and served. Fair enough. But thst is part of the process of joining up and receiving payment to serve as a member of the Armed Forces. Something that isn’t respected anything like as much here as it is across the pond, but then again until Blair kicked off his warmongering we hadn’t got involved in anything as unpleasant as Vietnam for a fair old while But this is different. Someone - i can’t imagine this is Charlie’s idea - wants the average citizen to swear an oath of fealty to a jerk whose morals are less than stellar and who wants to see everything that made this country worth defending in his mum’s first decades and his grandad’s before that flushed down the toilet.I think you credit him with far more power than he actually has. His life tends to be a continuous round of events like opening new Hospital wings and kissing babies - the real decisions are taken in Westminster. As it happens if his views on farming and house-building/architecture were taken notice of the country would be a lot better place to live. |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 1, 2023 18:17:52 GMT
Ok so you joined up and served. Fair enough. But thst is part of the process of joining up and receiving payment to serve as a member of the Armed Forces. Something that isn’t respected anything like as much here as it is across the pond, but then again until Blair kicked off his warmongering we hadn’t got involved in anything as unpleasant as Vietnam for a fair old while But this is different. Someone - i can’t imagine this is Charlie’s idea - wants the average citizen to swear an oath of fealty to a jerk whose morals are less than stellar and who wants to see everything that made this country worth defending in his mum’s first decades and his grandad’s before that flushed down the toilet.I think you credit him with far more power than he actually has. His life tends to be a continuous round of events like opening new Hospital wings and kissing babies - the real decisions are taken in Westminster. As it happens if his views on farming and house-building/architecture were taken notice of the country would be a lot better place to live. Maybe i do credit him with far more power than he has. Just be grateful you don't need a telephone or satellite TV in the Duchy of Cornwall. His demands on burying cables underground for example drove prices through the bloody roof and no amount of cutting back the expenses on next week will persuade me he has the faintest idea what it’s like to choose between heating and eating. But don’t get me wrong. I would very much prefer the country be a monarchy than a republic, if only because i know the bastards who got the job would cost us far more. It isn’t the MONARCHY i have a problem with, its the monarch. |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 1, 2023 18:28:16 GMT
Of course not. I wouldn't swear allegiance to anyone or anything. Furthermore, I'd guess not many will, other than a few sad gammons standing to attention in front of the telly. I guess you're a conscientious objector then Walter? my great uncle Tom was. Given a choice of an RAMC uniform and a medical bag or a uniform with arrows on, he chose the one with the red cross. He also demanded he be allowed to go to North Africa with his brother in law who’d been drafted to the Desert Rats. And he got his way. To be honest i think they needed medical staff there and it didn't matter to the powers that be that he was there with a stretcher because he refused to be there with a gun. The scenes in that film Heartbreak Ridge would have been very familiar to him in that theatre of war except substiture sand for mud and nobody seemed to mind the fact he refused to pick up a rifle when he appeared to patch up the bits that survived…. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 1, 2023 18:42:20 GMT
I guess you're a conscientious objector then Walter? my great uncle Tom was. Given a choice of an RAMC uniform and a medical bag or a uniform with arrows on, he chose the one with the red cross. He also demanded he be allowed to go to North Africa with his brother in law who’d been drafted to the Desert Rats. And he got his way. To be honest i think they needed medical staff there and it didn't matter to the powers that be that he was there with a stretcher because he refused to be there with a gun. The scenes in that film Heartbreak Ridge would have been very familiar to him in that theatre of war except substiture sand for mud and nobody seemed to mind the fact he refused to pick up a rifle when he appeared to patch up the bits that survived…. What can I say, well done great uncle Tom, I suspect he was in good company. He took the honourable option. Desmond Doss's story is quite incredible. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 1, 2023 19:08:19 GMT
As anyone who is watching GB News will know, historian David Starkey has just finished an hour long programme about the history of the coronation, and why it's so important. And I have to say, regardless of whether you're a monarchist or will be watching the coronation, it was very interesting. This country has so much history, it's a shame so few are aware of it.
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Post by Pacifico on May 2, 2023 7:20:28 GMT
I think you credit him with far more power than he actually has. His life tends to be a continuous round of events like opening new Hospital wings and kissing babies - the real decisions are taken in Westminster. As it happens if his views on farming and house-building/architecture were taken notice of the country would be a lot better place to live. Maybe i do credit him with far more power than he has. Just be grateful you don't need a telephone or satellite TV in the Duchy of Cornwall. His demands on burying cables underground for example drove prices through the bloody roof and no amount of cutting back the expenses on next week will persuade me he has the faintest idea what it’s like to choose between heating and eating.But don’t get me wrong. I would very much prefer the country be a monarchy than a republic, if only because i know the bastards who got the job would cost us far more. It isn’t the MONARCHY i have a problem with, its the monarch. I agree with him - utility lines should be underground and thus preserve the vista of our surroundings. If you allow places to look like a shit-hole dont be surprised when they become shit-holes. |
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Post by Handyman on May 2, 2023 12:32:48 GMT
The oath of allegiance to the reigning Monarch hundreds of years ago was compulsory on their Coronation day , in fact if you refused you could be executed those days have long gone, in 1953 when the late Queen Elizabeth 11 was crowned Prince Phillip took the oath to serve her on his knees in front of her in Westminster Abbey, Prince William will do the same to his Dad the King this weekend.
Lots of people taken the Oath to the reigning Monarch even Politicians, those that object to doing so can take a different oath,
"In general, this oath is sworn to the Crown, monarch, sovereign, or regent, as represented by the incumbent king or queen, currently Charles III. This oath also specifies that this same oath to the king, is equally sworn to his "heirs and successors", in the plural, rather than a single heir and successor. This indicates that any oath given to the king is equally given to William, Prince of Wales, Prince George, and all of his heirs and successors to the British throne, in the event that any one of them should accede to the throne. Thus, the pledge of loyalty to the Crown made in the oath does not end at the death of the current monarch.
This oath to the king, his heirs and successors is now administered in citizen ceremonies to immigrants becoming naturalized British subjects.
Members of the judiciary (justices of the peace, district judges, circuit judges etc.) swear their allegiance to the king, and to his heirs and successors; police officers in England and Wales pledge their allegiance to the king, but not his heirs and successors. Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) do not swear an oath of allegiance. The PSNI in 2001 replaced the Royal Ulster Constabulary, whose members pledged their allegiance to the King, but not his heirs and successors. The Scottish police have never pledged allegiance. Members of the Privy Council only swear allegiance to the "King's majesty", not to the king's heirs and successors."
There are a number of others that do
Someone at Lambeth Palace the Archbishops residence got mixed up sent out a wrong message, nobody is forced to swear allegiance to Kings Charles at the weekend it was not an order or request by Charles 111 , what he sent out is an " Invite " to do so if you so wish the decision is yours
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