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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 28, 2023 11:01:33 GMT
Apologies for butting in, but I think protagonists in this discussion are missing the point. Factors which affect the health of the economy have always been fairly straight forward; borrowing, inflation, interest rates, unemployment etc, these things have always fluctuated, was it ever any different.
However, the biggest factor by far that will have an adverse effect indeed is having an adverse effect on ordinary peoples spending power which in turn directly effects the health of the economy, is net zero. Oh yes it is. Even the independent Committee on Climate Change said net zero will adversely effect the economy, the WEF were rather more cagey about it, they said; net zero may inadvertently restrain economic development but however couched both statements mean the same thing, net zero will make us poorer.
Make no mistake experts, politicians and governments are very aware that net zero will make people and economies poorer. They don't like talking about it, but they are very aware of it.
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Post by thescotsman on Apr 28, 2023 11:12:46 GMT
I have heard it all now.🤣 You “How, pray, do the BoE stop inflation?” Monte…”By raising interest rates. This is intended to incentivise saving and reduce spending.”
Is he wrong?No |
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Post by Montegriffo on Apr 28, 2023 11:17:22 GMT
Apologies for butting in, but I think protagonists in this discussion are missing the point. Factors which affect the health of the economy have always been fairly straight forward; borrowing, inflation, interest rates, unemployment etc, these things have always fluctuated, was it ever any different. However, the biggest factor by far that will have an adverse effect indeed is having an adverse effect on ordinary peoples spending power which in turn directly effects the health of the economy, is net zero. Oh yes it is. Even the independent Committee on Climate Change said net zero will adversely effect the economy, the WEF were rather more cagey about it, they said; net zero may inadvertently restrain economic development but however couched both statements mean the same thing, net zero will make us poorer. Make no mistake experts, politicians and governments are very aware that net zero will make people and economies poorer. They don't like talking about it, but they are very aware of it. Only if you measure wealth in terms of money only. If you value things like clean air and unpolluted waters then environmental policies increase your wealth. Besides, the costs of climate change are already massive and only going to increase in the future. Not to mention the increase in refugees that climate change causes. |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 28, 2023 11:24:35 GMT
You “How, pray, do the BoE stop inflation?” Monte…”By raising interest rates. This is intended to incentivise saving and reduce spending.”
Is he wrong?No Correct. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 28, 2023 11:31:36 GMT
Apologies for butting in, but I think protagonists in this discussion are missing the point. Factors which affect the health of the economy have always been fairly straight forward; borrowing, inflation, interest rates, unemployment etc, these things have always fluctuated, was it ever any different. However, the biggest factor by far that will have an adverse effect indeed is having an adverse effect on ordinary peoples spending power which in turn directly effects the health of the economy, is net zero. Oh yes it is. Even the independent Committee on Climate Change said net zero will adversely effect the economy, the WEF were rather more cagey about it, they said; net zero may inadvertently restrain economic development but however couched both statements mean the same thing, net zero will make us poorer. Make no mistake experts, politicians and governments are very aware that net zero will make people and economies poorer. They don't like talking about it, but they are very aware of it. Only if you measure wealth in terms of money only. If you value things like clean air and unpolluted waters then environmental policies increase your wealth. Besides, the costs of climate change are already massive and only going to increase in the future. Not to mention the increase in refugees that climate change causes. Monte, tell that to the worlds biggest polluters who have not committed to net zero. Whether net zero will have any long term effect on climate change is at best debatable. But one thing is for sure, net zero cannot work on a virtuous unilateral level. If everyone particularly the worlds biggest emitters of greenhouses gasses are not on board, all net zero will achieve is a shift in power and wealth from west to east. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 28, 2023 11:31:56 GMT
The USA subsidises fuel, resulting in low fuel prices. Is it time our government did something similar as a short term measure in response to the war? A result of that would be more money in the public's pockets. And more disposable money that would be taxed. Doing that is exactly what causes inflation. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Apr 28, 2023 11:40:13 GMT
Only if you measure wealth in terms of money only. If you value things like clean air and unpolluted waters then environmental policies increase your wealth. Besides, the costs of climate change are already massive and only going to increase in the future. Not to mention the increase in refugees that climate change causes. Monte, tell that to the worlds biggest polluters who have not committed to net zero. Whether net zero will have any long term effect on climate change is at best debatable. But one thing is for sure, net zero cannot work on a virtuous unilateral level. If everyone particularly the worlds biggest emitters of greenhouses gasses are not on board, all net zero will achieve is a shift in power and wealth from west to east. Which of the biggest polluters have not committed to net zero? |
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Post by Montegriffo on Apr 28, 2023 11:51:23 GMT
Monte, tell that to the worlds biggest polluters who have not committed to net zero. Whether net zero will have any long term effect on climate change is at best debatable. But one thing is for sure, net zero cannot work on a virtuous unilateral level. If everyone particularly the worlds biggest emitters of greenhouses gasses are not on board, all net zero will achieve is a shift in power and wealth from west to east. Which of the biggest polluters have not committed to net zero? Your silence indicates that you have looked it up and found that China does indeed have a net zero policy. This is one buck that can't be passed. We are all in this together. Climate change does not recognise international borders. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 28, 2023 12:02:40 GMT
Which of the biggest polluters have not committed to net zero? Your silence indicates that you have looked it up and found that China does indeed have a net zero policy. This is one buck that can't be passed. We are all in this together. Climate change does not recognise international borders. Calm down, ffs I've just sat down again. Christ I've got you bending my ear on here and Mrs R bending my ear from the garden. However where were we... Ahh yes. LOL, you say China has a net zero policy, oh right that's OK then. Monte, anyone who thinks China is even slightly bothered about net zero should not be left alone with sharp objects. China is building more than half of the world's new coal power plants: www.newscientist.com/article/2317274-china-is-building-more-than-half-of-the-worlds-new-coal-power-plants/China’s power industry calls for hundreds of new coal power plants by 2030: unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/ |
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Post by Montegriffo on Apr 28, 2023 12:13:11 GMT
Your silence indicates that you have looked it up and found that China does indeed have a net zero policy. This is one buck that can't be passed. We are all in this together. Climate change does not recognise international borders. Calm down, ffs I've just sat down again. Christ I've got you bending my ear on here and Mrs R bending my ear from the garden. However where were we... Ahh yes. LOL, you say China has a net zero policy, oh right that's OK then. Monte, anyone who thinks China is even slightly bothered about net zero should not be left alone with sharp objects. China is building more than half of the world's new coal power plants: www.newscientist.com/article/2317274-china-is-building-more-than-half-of-the-worlds-new-coal-power-plants/China’s power industry calls for hundreds of new coal power plants by 2030: unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/China is the world leader in power generated by solar, wind and hydro. They are committed to producing 80% of their electricity without fossil fuels by 2060. It's no good trying to pass the buck Red. We are all in this together. If the West abandons net zero how long do you think China or India will keep it up? |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 28, 2023 12:17:07 GMT
Monte, due to the war there's fuel shortages pushing prices up and food shortages pushing prices up, in the short term, we don't have many options.
We have to cut costs for those at the bottom.
That means cutting tax on fuel, electricity and gas, and cutting VAT.
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Post by Montegriffo on Apr 28, 2023 12:21:14 GMT
Monte, due to the war there's fuel shortages pushing prices up and food shortages pushing prices up, in the short term, we don't have many options. We have to cut costs for those at the bottom. That means cutting tax on fuel, electricity and gas, and cutting VAT. Less consumption is the most efficient way to reduce CO2 output. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 28, 2023 12:23:49 GMT
Talking about China wont hobble the western world or you and your family. They focus exclusively on their aims.
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 28, 2023 12:33:32 GMT
China is the world leader in power generated by solar, wind and hydro. They are committed to producing 80% of their electricity without fossil fuels by 2060. It's no good trying to pass the buck Red. We are all in this together. If the West abandons net zero how long do you think China or India will keep it up? For Christs sake, rather than listening to what the Chinese want you to believe as they laugh and piss in your pocket, look at what they're doing. They are building coal fired power stations in many countries around the world, and in China, they have committed to cut new build power stations to two a month until 2030 by which time the Chinese are expected to have 1,470 coal fired power stations. And lets not forget, Chinese coal fired power stations aren't 1 MW stations like most of ours were, they are huge 5 & 6 MW stations. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 28, 2023 12:34:39 GMT
Monte, due to the war there's fuel shortages pushing prices up and food shortages pushing prices up, in the short term, we don't have many options. We have to cut costs for those at the bottom. That means cutting tax on fuel, electricity and gas, and cutting VAT. Our best friend the US blew up our energy supply. The UK is full of ignorant bastards that support them doing this.
Without energy nothing works.
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