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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 18, 2023 1:56:08 GMT
We spend a lot of time talking about the difference between the free market capitalist economy of the West and how it was superior to the command economy of the USSR, but in looking deeper into exactly how they ran it and the results it did achieve, it can be said it was far from a failure. Remember at the time the country was a super power, and like you don't get to be one of those by failing. Russia did industrialise successfully. They even built their own space station. It's true to say there were some very smart people in Russian society, especially in the sciences like physics, and there were many top engineers. So with all of that in mind, and during a time when the transistor was being invented, the Russians were keen to build computers. They wanted to build an internet. This is how it went, what it was designed to do and how it was handled politically. It makes for a good story.
By the way, that book mentioned by Norbert Weiner on cybernetics (a word he coined) is a classic book. It was in our school library. If anyone is interested in 1950s tech, that's a bit of history. He tried to figure out how to make computers and robots by studying the human body. A man well ahead of his time.
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Post by piglet on Apr 18, 2023 15:43:30 GMT
Before i say anything i must inform you that i am half Belorussian, which includes the Baltics, Norway, Sweden even Iceland, my father served in the Russian battalions of the nazis in ww2.
And i would like to inform you Russia is as fucking dumb as it gets. There might be a few bright ones somewhere, the vast majority are ill educated peasents, and pheasents, or might as well be.
Not only that, they run themselves with a feudal system going back to the Tarters of 458,and before, strongest man takes charge.
What that means is last man standing takes charge, he has murdered all his competitors. Try sentences Baron, my eyes are going. Why you admire Russia is beyond me, i grew up with it, and if i had my way, we would nuke Russia tomorrow.
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 18, 2023 20:19:53 GMT
We spend a lot of time talking about the difference between the free market capitalist economy of the West and how it was superior to the command economy of the USSR, but in looking deeper into exactly how they ran it and the results it did achieve, it can be said it was far from a failure. Remember at the time the country was a super power, and like you don't get to be one of those by failing. Russia did industrialise successfully. They even built their own space station. It's true to say there were some very smart people in Russian society, especially in the sciences like physics, and there were many top engineers. So with all of that in mind, and during a time when the transistor was being invented, the Russians were keen to build computers. They wanted to build an internet. This is how it went, what it was designed to do and how it was handled politically. It makes for a good story.
By the way, that book mentioned by Norbert Weiner on cybernetics (a word he coined) is a classic book. It was in our school library. If anyone is interested in 1950s tech, that's a bit of history. He tried to figure out how to make computers and robots by studying the human body. A man well ahead of his time.
Yes, the Russian economy did much better than was to be expected under 'communism'. Marx didn't think communism possible in a poor country, only in advanced industrial economies. Marxism is about the redistribution of 'surplus'; it could never work in a country where there was not only no surplus, but not even sufficient to meet the individual's basic needs. |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 18, 2023 21:07:30 GMT
Just remind me . When was the USSR ever a land of plenty ?
Asking for a comrade.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 18, 2023 21:28:00 GMT
Well as the old Russian joke goes:
In Soviet Russia a Man Goes to Buy a Car...
He sees the dealer and asks for a car, to which the dealer responds:
'You know there is a 10 year waiting list?'
The man then answers, 'OK,' and he then agreed to buy a car.
So he pays for the car in advance, and just before he leaves he asks the dealer,
'Can I pick the car up in the morning or afternoon?'
'It's 10 years away, what does it matter?'
'The plumber is coming in the morning'.
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 18, 2023 22:16:01 GMT
Just remind me . When was the USSR ever a land of plenty ? Asking for a comrade. Who said it ever was? Asking for Nigel Farage's paymasters. |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 18, 2023 22:19:34 GMT
Just remind me . When was the USSR ever a land of plenty ? Asking for a comrade. Who said it ever was? Asking for Nigel Farage's paymasters. Not me. Lefties seem fixated by Farage . |
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 18, 2023 23:31:42 GMT
Who said it ever was? Asking for Nigel Farage's paymasters. Not me. Lefties seem fixated by Farage . And his relationship with Putin. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 19, 2023 2:15:10 GMT
Before i say anything i must inform you that i am half Belorussian, which includes the Baltics, Norway, Sweden even Iceland, my father served in the Russian battalions of the nazis in ww2. And i would like to inform you Russia is as fucking dumb as it gets. There might be a few bright ones somewhere, the vast majority are ill educated peasents, and pheasents, or might as well be. Not only that, they run themselves with a feudal system going back to the Tarters of 458,and before, strongest man takes charge. What that means is last man standing takes charge, he has murdered all his competitors. Try sentences Baron, my eyes are going. Why you admire Russia is beyond me, i grew up with it, and if i had my way, we would nuke Russia tomorrow. Yes there were a few bright ones somewhere. Here are three that come to mind on that side of the Iron Curtain or Russian origin.
I think it is the Jewish blood. They are very good mathematicians. I agree with you about the other sort you refer to.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 19, 2023 6:51:30 GMT
Not me. Lefties seem fixated by Farage . And his relationship with Putin. It's a free country - why shouldn't he have a relationship with whoever he likes?. We are not in the EU now you know.. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 19, 2023 8:31:30 GMT
One useful metric in comparing the relative contribution of a society is the number of Nobel laureates in the hard sciences. By that measure the performance of the Soviet Union and Russia has been dismal. With 20 laureates (and just four since 1991) it stands seventh in the global rankings behind the USA, the UK, Germany, France, Japan and Switzerland.
The only consolation is that even that outperforms China, with a grand total of seven laureates or 11 if we wish to be generous and include Taiwanese.
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 19, 2023 9:20:25 GMT
And his relationship with Putin. It's a free country - why shouldn't he have a relationship with whoever he likes?. We are not in the EU now you know.. Well, Putin was killing people on British streets at the time, Doc. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 19, 2023 11:13:21 GMT
It's a free country - why shouldn't he have a relationship with whoever he likes?. We are not in the EU now you know.. Well, Putin was killing people on British streets at the time, Doc. And?... This is the UK, not the EU - people are free to believe all sorts of crackpot ideas without permission from on high. |
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 19, 2023 11:15:12 GMT
Well, Putin was killing people on British streets at the time, Doc. And?... This is the UK, not the EU - people are free to believe all sorts of crackpot ideas without permission from on high. What are people free to believe in the UK that is outlawed in the EU? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 19, 2023 12:20:32 GMT
One useful metric in comparing the relative contribution of a society is the number of Nobel laureates in the hard sciences. By that measure the performance of the Soviet Union and Russia has been dismal. With 20 laureates (and just four since 1991) it stands seventh in the global rankings behind the USA, the UK, Germany, France, Japan and Switzerland. The only consolation is that even that outperforms China, with a grand total of seven laureates or 11 if we wish to be generous and include Taiwanese. 7th in the world is not bad though. I never claimed it was top, but what I do claim is they were better than many give them credit for. If you have a little tinkle on Youtube you will find some videos where people actually take apart Russian soviet technology to look at how it was made. In my view it was not at all bad and a lot of it was built to high standards. I mean they were behind the West, but they were in the race. Meanwhile what of Africa? How many space missions has it launched or what aircraft or what cars has it built during this time.
Look carefully and you will see numerous examples where Russian technology was ahead of the rest of the world. Oh and there was one thing they invented the West was totally fucked up by, and that was the passive microwave listening bug. The US president was given an "award" which inside it there was a microwave resonator which would be modulated by sound waves. As they reflected a microwave signal at it , the bug would modulate the return signal, so Russia knew everything said in that office for years, with or without their Nobel geniuses! |
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