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Post by see2 on Apr 15, 2023 8:25:18 GMT
There usually are. Anyone who votes Tory whilst not well off is by definition an idiot in the first place. Oh I don't know, there is a long history of working class Tories who prefer to support an idea that they can have a future where their lives are improved for them and their families. Not all working class are content to follow the Labour view that they should stay the same as their fathers (and fathers fathers etc) - aspiration is a powerful draw for some. There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage.
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Post by sheepy on Apr 15, 2023 8:26:42 GMT
Oh I don't know, there is a long history of working class Tories who prefer to support an idea that they can have a future where their lives are improved for them and their families. Not all working class are content to follow the Labour view that they should stay the same as their fathers (and fathers fathers etc) - aspiration is a powerful draw for some. There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage. So must have new Labour then, in that case. Old Labour are dead and so is Conservatism we are all under the spell of global American politics as driven by corporations, you all work for the man you just don't know it.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 15, 2023 10:01:42 GMT
I repeat - that race was initially brought into the debate by Bentley with this statement > " small villages and towns effectively being over run by ethnic groups"The statement is factually incorrect, the two British towns with the highest numbers of Eastern Europeans are Peterborough and Boston. The Eastern European population of Peterborough is 14,000, in a city of 216,000 people ( 6.5% ) The Eastern European population of Boston is about 11% of the total population of 45,000 Only a xenophobe would make a false statement that UK towns are "over-run by ethnic groups" If the grounds of your opposition to Freedom of Movement were economic grounds, high unemployment etc, then it would be rational. But to use grounds of ethnicity, race or nationality, combined with terms such as "Over Run", then your opposition is based upon xenophobia. I explained to you how you are completely wrong that wages cannot stagnate even if NMW goes up but you ignored that went on to call people xenophobes if they object to their environment bring invaded and changed by migrants. Now you show equal ignorance by claiming that migrants are evenly spread amongst the towns and villages that they invade. I repeat. You have no knowledge about this subject other than what is between your ears or what you read in the ‘ woke and virtual signallers handbook’. The bottom line is this, you lost , we are not in the EU and your insults and ignorance are of no consequence now anyway. Boston ..1 in 10 people are East European and you think that’s not an invasion ? Leftie ignorance in full view.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 15, 2023 10:09:44 GMT
Oh I don't know, there is a long history of working class Tories who prefer to support an idea that they can have a future where their lives are improved for them and their families. Not all working class are content to follow the Labour view that they should stay the same as their fathers (and fathers fathers etc) - aspiration is a powerful draw for some. There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage. Perhaps your memory isn’t what it was. Let me remind you that the UK was a basket case before Thatcher. Unions were running rampant and the economy on the slide. Your fantasy that the Tories are a sinister group of shady money men who fool the gullible public ( except you) by a propaganda machine producing right wing garbage is just that, your fantasy. Stop embarrassing yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2023 10:50:06 GMT
I repeat - that race was initially brought into the debate by Bentley with this statement > " small villages and towns effectively being over run by ethnic groups"The statement is factually incorrect, the two British towns with the highest numbers of Eastern Europeans are Peterborough and Boston. The Eastern European population of Peterborough is 14,000, in a city of 216,000 people ( 6.5% ) The Eastern European population of Boston is about 11% of the total population of 45,000 Only a xenophobe would make a false statement that UK towns are "over-run by ethnic groups" If the grounds of your opposition to Freedom of Movement were economic grounds, high unemployment etc, then it would be rational. But to use grounds of ethnicity, race or nationality, combined with terms such as "Over Run", then your opposition is based upon xenophobia. I explained to you how you are completely wrong that wages cannot stagnate even if NMW goes up but you ignored that went on to call people xenophobes if they object to their environment bring invaded and changed by migrants. Now you show equal ignorance by claiming that migrants are evenly spread amongst the towns and villages that they invade. I repeat. You have no knowledge about this subject other than what is between your ears or what you read in the ‘ woke and virtual signallers handbook’. The bottom line is this, you lost , we are not in the EU and your insults and ignorance are of no consequence now anyway. Boston ..1 in 10 people are East European and you think that’s not an invasion ? Leftie ignorance in full view. The term "invaded" is also something that only a xenophobe would use, same as "over run", you make it sound like Boston or Peterborough was suffering from a plague of rats. One in ten people is 10% of the population, meaning that 90% of the population are not European migrants, NO I would not call that an invasion. I have not ever claimed that European migrant workers are evenly spread across the country, I specifically stated that an area around South Lincolnshire and The Fens including Peterborough had the highest proportion. This was due to the availability of a large number of jobs in the food and agricultural sectors. You need to think carefuly about your wording "people object to their environment been invaded and changed" ... in what way has their environment been changed. ? Do you believe that hearing people in the street speaking Polish will ruin their way of life. ? PATHETIC My knowledge on this subject is based on first hand experience, of seeing and meeting Eastern Europeans who came to work and live in my area, and by making friends with some of them. Most of them speak English, but often speak amongst themselves in their mother tongue. No ... Its not Leftie ignorance, I see things for what they really are, reality, and not some front as put on by a bigot to hide their hatred for decent, hard working people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2023 10:52:05 GMT
The term "invaded" is also something that only a xenophobe would use Ukraine.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 15, 2023 11:30:41 GMT
This is the damage that Labour did to our country... Not withstanding the numbers of asylum seekers while insinuating that the migration was a bad thing. Perhaps the stunted mindedness of the biased might try to explain how else to overcome the underlying damage done to the UK in the 1980s that led to the shortage of skilled and professional people etc. that influenced the migration into the UK at a time of an expanding economy? Not insinuating anything - mass immigration is a bad thing. And the economy that Labour inherited couldnt have been that bad if hundreds of thousands of people flocked to the UK
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 15, 2023 11:36:54 GMT
Oh I don't know, there is a long history of working class Tories who prefer to support an idea that they can have a future where their lives are improved for them and their families. Not all working class are content to follow the Labour view that they should stay the same as their fathers (and fathers fathers etc) - aspiration is a powerful draw for some. There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage. You have no idea what anyones own well being is - stop making an arse of yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2023 13:27:10 GMT
Its easy to explain precisely why the chart as posted by pacifico, can all be attributed to John Majors government. Firstly, the sharp rise in nett migration begins part way through the 1991 - 2001 period The Maastricht Treaty including Freedom of Movement was passed in the UK Parliament in 1993, the same year that the treaty and Freedom of Movement came into force. The effect of Freedom of Movement coming into force in 1993 can clearly be seen in the chart The even bigger rise in the next period 2001 to 2011 was due to the ascession of the largest number of nations ever joining the EU at the same time, the EU10, which consisted of Poland, the Czech Republic, Lavia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Malta, Slovakia, Slovenia and Cyprus, meant that migration greatly increased from 2004 onwards, and clearly seen in the chart. Of course it would be easy to be fooled by the claim that the rises in nett immigration were all down to Labour, because they were the government of the day, But as with lots of things, you often find a different story by understanding the background. Pacifico's claim that "this is the damage that Labour did to our country" is as far removed from reality as you can possibly get.
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Post by sandypine on Apr 15, 2023 13:32:55 GMT
I explained to you how you are completely wrong that wages cannot stagnate even if NMW goes up but you ignored that went on to call people xenophobes if they object to their environment bring invaded and changed by migrants. Now you show equal ignorance by claiming that migrants are evenly spread amongst the towns and villages that they invade. I repeat. You have no knowledge about this subject other than what is between your ears or what you read in the ‘ woke and virtual signallers handbook’. The bottom line is this, you lost , we are not in the EU and your insults and ignorance are of no consequence now anyway. Boston ..1 in 10 people are East European and you think that’s not an invasion ? Leftie ignorance in full view. The term "invaded" is also something that only a xenophobe would use, same as "over run", you make it sound like Boston or Peterborough was suffering from a plague of rats. One in ten people is 10% of the population, meaning that 90% of the population are not European migrants, NO I would not call that an invasion. I have not ever claimed that European migrant workers are evenly spread across the country, I specifically stated that an area around South Lincolnshire and The Fens including Peterborough had the highest proportion. This was due to the availability of a large number of jobs in the food and agricultural sectors. You need to think carefuly about your wording "people object to their environment been invaded and changed" ... in what way has their environment been changed. ? Do you believe that hearing people in the street speaking Polish will ruin their way of life. ? PATHETIC My knowledge on this subject is based on first hand experience, of seeing and meeting Eastern Europeans who came to work and live in my area, and by making friends with some of them. Most of them speak English, but often speak amongst themselves in their mother tongue. No ... Its not Leftie ignorance, I see things for what they really are, reality, and not some front as put on by a bigot to hide their hatred for decent, hard working people. One in six British residents were not born in the UK, that is pretty much an invasion and being overrun. Even the Bengali community in East London fear they are being replaced from an area in and around Brick Lane due to an influx of monied people and redevelopment. It seems thigs keep coming around adn if teh whole world is a stage then the actors change with astonishing frequency and the resident actors all, no matter who they are, complain.
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Post by see2 on Apr 15, 2023 13:35:33 GMT
There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage. Perhaps your memory isn’t what it was. Let me remind you that the UK was a basket case before Thatcher. Unions were running rampant and the economy on the slide. Your fantasy that the Tories are a sinister group of shady money men who fool the gullible public ( except you) by a propaganda machine producing right wing garbage is just that, your fantasy. Stop embarrassing yourself. Let me lead you to the truth The economy WAS already on the slide even though it had reduced from over 20% inflation to around 10%. The Unions were never running anything, pissed off workers took things into their own hands and. As it happened, they helped to cut their own throats. Because they played right into Thatcher's right-wing Neo Liberal hands. That piece of political garbage Thatcher was quick to use the LIE that the problems were caused by the unions and nationalisations, a ABSOLUTE LIE swallow by the naive such as yourself. As you do not recognise the insidious nature of right-wing propaganda, you can NEVER form a well informed political opinion. So I leave you to wallow once again.
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Post by see2 on Apr 15, 2023 13:40:57 GMT
There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage. You have no idea what anyones own well being is - stop making an arse of yourself. Try finding a second brain cell. 4Million unemployed ring a bell, skilled workers finding shelf filling jobs? Take a rest mate you posts are heading downhill.
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Post by see2 on Apr 15, 2023 13:49:59 GMT
Not withstanding the numbers of asylum seekers while insinuating that the migration was a bad thing. Perhaps the stunted mindedness of the biased might try to explain how else to overcome the underlying damage done to the UK in the 1980s that led to the shortage of skilled and professional people etc. that influenced the migration into the UK at a time of an expanding economy? Not insinuating anything - mass immigration is a bad thing. And the economy that Labour inherited couldnt have been that bad if hundreds of thousands of people flocked to the UK It wasn't a bad thing AT THAT TIME due to the shortages of skilled and professional workers, thanks to your idiot mate Thatcher. NL inherited an improved economy that still had big black holes in it such as: In education, in the NHS, in the lack of apprenticeships, and still with high unemployment.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 15, 2023 13:50:05 GMT
I explained to you how you are completely wrong that wages cannot stagnate even if NMW goes up but you ignored that went on to call people xenophobes if they object to their environment bring invaded and changed by migrants. Now you show equal ignorance by claiming that migrants are evenly spread amongst the towns and villages that they invade. I repeat. You have no knowledge about this subject other than what is between your ears or what you read in the ‘ woke and virtual signallers handbook’. The bottom line is this, you lost , we are not in the EU and your insults and ignorance are of no consequence now anyway. Boston ..1 in 10 people are East European and you think that’s not an invasion ? Leftie ignorance in full view. The term "invaded" is also something that only a xenophobe would use, same as "over run", you make it sound like Boston or Peterborough was suffering from a plague of rats. One in ten people is 10% of the population, meaning that 90% of the population are not European migrants, NO I would not call that an invasion. I have not ever claimed that European migrant workers are evenly spread across the country, I specifically stated that an area around South Lincolnshire and The Fens including Peterborough had the highest proportion. This was due to the availability of a large number of jobs in the food and agricultural sectors. You need to think carefuly about your wording "people object to their environment been invaded and changed" ... in what way has their environment been changed. ? Do you believe that hearing people in the street speaking Polish will ruin their way of life. ? PATHETIC My knowledge on this subject is based on first hand experience, of seeing and meeting Eastern Europeans who came to work and live in my area, and by making friends with some of them. Most of them speak English, but often speak amongst themselves in their mother tongue. No ... Its not Leftie ignorance, I see things for what they really are, reality, and not some front as put on by a bigot to hide their hatred for decent, hard working people. It’s lefties ignorance personified. A community increases by 10 % and lefties can’t comprehend that 1 the migrants will be concentrated in pockets 2 that would cause real changes in those pockets and ones that might be disturbing for the ones already there . 3 the people living outside of those pockets would be aware of it . Migrants were shipped in via employment agencies from East European countries. East European gangers were employed to oversee the labourers because so many of them were unable to speak English. In my experience the company paid the agencies to supply casual labour , the casual workers were paid by the agency that housed them( in multiple occupancies per room and transported them to the factory . The agencies paid them minus expenses. That is until they failed to pay them for a month ..but that’s another story. The fact is that you are ignorant of what is happening and you are filling in the blanks with lefties dogma . Ordinary people don’t care about leftie lies and insults . The fact us that we are out of the EU , wages are rising , jobs are more plentiful and ex remainers are irrelevant. Its a good time to be a brexiter.😉
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Post by Bentley on Apr 15, 2023 13:57:52 GMT
Perhaps your memory isn’t what it was. Let me remind you that the UK was a basket case before Thatcher. Unions were running rampant and the economy on the slide. Your fantasy that the Tories are a sinister group of shady money men who fool the gullible public ( except you) by a propaganda machine producing right wing garbage is just that, your fantasy. Stop embarrassing yourself. Let me lead you to the truth The economy WAS already on the slide even though it had reduced from over 20% inflation to around 10%. The Unions were never running anything, pissed off workers took things into their own hands and. As it happened, they helped to cut their own throats. Because they played right into Thatcher's right-wing Neo Liberal hands. That piece of political garbage Thatcher was quick to use the LIE that the problems were caused by the unions and nationalisations, a ABSOLUTE LIE swallow by the naive such as yourself. As you do not recognise the insidious nature of right-wing propaganda, you can NEVER form a well informed political opinion. So I leave you to wallow once again. Nope. Still posting your fantasies . Unions had huge influence over Labour and Tory governments. Joe Gormley and the miners trashed the Heath government . It took Thatchers to beat the miners, printers and post office unions which was the start of union influence waning. The problems were solely because of the unions . Unions became powerful because governments were weak. Thatcher was not. She changed society .
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