|
|
Post by Pacifico on Apr 12, 2023 21:38:55 GMT
Whatever. But it seems to me she coped with the hands she was dealt. Part of being successful is not to do well only when things are in your favour, but also to be able to correct mistakes when they’re made. This Margaret Thatcher did — even up to the point of resigning when prolonging the contest would have split the party still further. As it was, the Tories remained in power for another seven years… Whatever? Really  I know you’re not some stroppy teenager. The point made was she dealt the hand she played. Well not really. I dont recall anyone, especially the Labour Party (who were pretty gung-ho about defence expenditure reduction at that time), suggesting the the removal of Endurance was going to cause the Argentinians to invade. I agree it sent the wrong signal - but in the circumstances there were higher priorities. |
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Apr 12, 2023 22:10:50 GMT
Whatever? Really I know you’re not some stroppy teenager. The point made was she dealt the hand she played. Well not really. I dont recall anyone, especially the Labour Party (who were pretty gung-ho about defence expenditure reduction at that time), suggesting the the removal of Endurance was going to cause the Argentinians to invade. I agree it sent the wrong signal - but in the circumstances there were higher priorities. Yes but the point is she was El Supremo so labour in opposition and their action or inaction is irrelevant, if we went down that road the tories should shoulder as much blame as Blair’s labour regarding the Iraq debacle and clearly that’s not correct is it ? |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Apr 14, 2023 9:01:09 GMT
Maybe somewhere in between? Ten years ago Thatcher died,as a politician I detested her and much of her legacy is discredited imo like the failed privatisations. Couldn't believe the celebrations when she died though she was a human being and I don’t celebrate others deaths. She laid the foundations for those celebrations the day she openly rejoiced at throwing whole communities in the south wales valleys on the scrap heap. You can argue until you are blue in the face that what she did to fuck the highest paid workers in wales was necessary. But you will spectacularly miss the point. She absolutely fucking rejoiced at having done it. I remember walking into a constitutional club in Ebbw Vale the day after her demise was announced and they were STILL singing ‘Ding Dong The Wicked Witch Is Dead’ which naturally i joined in with. About three months ago my grand daughter was on stage at Newport’s Dolman Theatre as one of the lead Munchkins in her musical theatre group’s performance of the Wizard of Oz and there are two occasions where that song is sung, and on both occasions there was SIGNIFICANT ‘audience participation’ In fact of course it was her imposition of the Right To Buy WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DENYING councils the right, and starving them of funds to even start to replace that stock, which did far more, and more long lasting damage. Almost all the men she threw on the scrap heap are dead now, mainly thanks to the lousy working conditions down the pits and the apalling problems the dust gave them, but the housing shortage her right to buy and denial of supply continuation generated will be with us for a thousand years |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Apr 14, 2023 10:05:51 GMT
Maybe somewhere in between? Ten years ago Thatcher died,as a politician I detested her and much of her legacy is discredited imo like the failed privatisations. Couldn't believe the celebrations when she died though she was a human being and I don’t celebrate others deaths. She laid the foundations for those celebrations the day she openly rejoiced at throwing whole communities in the south wales valleys on the scrap heap. You can argue until you are blue in the face that what she did to fuck the highest paid workers in wales was necessary. But you will spectacularly miss the point. She absolutely fucking rejoiced at having done it. I remember walking into a constitutional club in Ebbw Vale the day after her demise was announced and they were STILL singing ‘Ding Dong The Wicked Witch Is Dead’ which naturally i joined in with. About three months ago my grand daughter was on stage at Newport’s Dolman Theatre as one of the lead Munchkins in her musical theatre group’s performance of the Wizard of Oz and there are two occasions where that song is sung, and on both occasions there was SIGNIFICANT ‘audience participation’ In fact of course it was her imposition of the Right To Buy WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DENYING councils the right, and starving them of funds to even start to replace that stock, which did far more, and more long lasting damage. Almost all the men she threw on the scrap heap are dead now, mainly thanks to the lousy working conditions down the pits and the apalling problems the dust gave them, but the housing shortage her right to buy and denial of supply continuation generated will be with us for a thousand years Well said. Let me point out again that it wasn’t just the right to buy your house but the right to buy it at a knock down price. I have been told that families were buying granny’s council flat too . Afaik the South wasn’t affected nearly as much as Wales and the North. I worked with a bloke from Tyneside who told me about the devastation Thatchers policies inflicted there. There was nothing to compare with it where I lived. |
|
|
|
Post by piglet on Apr 14, 2023 16:09:29 GMT
So to pursue the effect of not doing those things, not closing down mines and not selling off council houses. It reminds me of France, Europe used to, and probably still does produce food and wine mountains that were destroyed, while being paid to do so in the 1970s.
While vast tracts of Africa starved. Should Britain produce coal no one wants to buy, for the sake of keeping people in work, and communities together?
Should Britain be run at a loss? Its like asking time to stop, for nature to stop producing a better claw or beak.
Lets stay with what weve got, we dont want to upset owt.
Should society be responsible for housing people, taking responsibility for them? No. Thatchers fault was that she could forsee consequences, the future, while complainants only lived in the present, unable to see a big picture, or even a small one, like you work in a profession that doesnt make money. Thats silly isnt it?, every businessman would queue up to produce something that would bankrupt them, im mocking.
The arguement is response will be emotional, silly, lacking in vision, logic and immature. VIVA THATCHER. Britain moves with the times, unlike the frogs.
|
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Apr 14, 2023 17:48:33 GMT
So to pursue the effect of not doing those things, not closing down mines and not selling off council houses. It reminds me of France, Europe used to, and probably still does produce food and wine mountains that were destroyed, while being paid to do so in the 1970s. While vast tracts of Africa starved. Should Britain produce coal no one wants to buy, for the sake of keeping people in work, and communities together? Should Britain be run at a loss? Its like asking time to stop, for nature to stop producing a better claw or beak. Lets stay with what weve got, we dont want to upset owt. Should society be responsible for housing people, taking responsibility for them? No. Thatchers fault was that she could forsee consequences, the future, while complainants only lived in the present, unable to see a big picture, or even a small one, like you work in a profession that doesnt make money. Thats silly isnt it?, every businessman would queue up to produce something that would bankrupt them, im mocking. The arguement is response will be emotional, silly, lacking in vision, logic and immature. VIVA THATCHER. Britain moves with the times, unlike the frogs. So why were other European countries still producing(low grade coal) for power and recently whilst we pay your middlemen businessmen drones through the nose for energy and we imported coal from South America,absolute madness. Council house sell off,more madness and now there’s no accommodation for the poor and low paid,just political dogma. Please explain why we have no energy security and businesses that produced nothing but filled their boots then went bankrupt leaving the population to pay ridiculous standing charges and regulators acting more for bent businesses than the consumer. Move with the times,what times net zero whilst old people ride the buses because they can’t afford to heat their homes. |
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Apr 14, 2023 18:28:37 GMT
. . .In fact of course it was her imposition of the Right To Buy WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DENYING councils the right, and starving them of funds to even start to replace that stock, which did far more, and more long lasting damage. Almost all the men she threw on the scrap heap are dead now, mainly thanks to the lousy working conditions down the pits and the apalling problems the dust gave them, but the housing shortage her right to buy and denial of supply continuation generated will be with us for a thousand years It was also a shameless way of stealing assets from councils to be sold to fill her government coffers which not raising taxes for her chums. Apart from administration fees all the proceeds of those sales had to be forwarded to her exchequer. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Apr 14, 2023 22:55:13 GMT
I had my thoughts about Thatcher at the time, but I feel a bit of a fraud commenting because I went in the army before she became PM and I left the army long after she left office, so her policies as popular or unpopular as they were didn't affect me, well not directly anyway. I read about high interest rates and repossessions without really understanding what was going on back in the UK. I make no apologies for this, you wouldn't have swapped places with me. Well, not unless you could ski, or climb, I suppose.  |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Apr 15, 2023 11:15:48 GMT
Maybe somewhere in between? Ten years ago Thatcher died,as a politician I detested her and much of her legacy is discredited imo like the failed privatisations. Couldn't believe the celebrations when she died though she was a human being and I don’t celebrate others deaths. She laid the foundations for those celebrations the day she openly rejoiced at throwing whole communities in the south wales valleys on the scrap heap. You can argue until you are blue in the face that what she did to fuck the highest paid workers in wales was necessary. But you will spectacularly miss the point. She absolutely fucking rejoiced at having done it. I remember walking into a constitutional club in Ebbw Vale the day after her demise was announced and they were STILL singing ‘Ding Dong The Wicked Witch Is Dead’ which naturally i joined in with. About three months ago my grand daughter was on stage at Newport’s Dolman Theatre as one of the lead Munchkins in her musical theatre group’s performance of the Wizard of Oz and there are two occasions where that song is sung, and on both occasions there was SIGNIFICANT ‘audience participation’ In fact of course it was her imposition of the Right To Buy WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DENYING councils the right, and starving them of funds to even start to replace that stock, which did far more, and more long lasting damage. Almost all the men she threw on the scrap heap are dead now, mainly thanks to the lousy working conditions down the pits and the apalling problems the dust gave them, but the housing shortage her right to buy and denial of supply continuation generated will be with us for a thousand years Right to buy should have gone hand in hand with obligation to replace. If that had happened, our country would be quite different now. Right to buy was not a bad thing, it just needed additional policies to go with it. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Apr 15, 2023 11:58:39 GMT
She laid the foundations for those celebrations the day she openly rejoiced at throwing whole communities in the south wales valleys on the scrap heap. You can argue until you are blue in the face that what she did to fuck the highest paid workers in wales was necessary. But you will spectacularly miss the point. She absolutely fucking rejoiced at having done it. I remember walking into a constitutional club in Ebbw Vale the day after her demise was announced and they were STILL singing ‘Ding Dong The Wicked Witch Is Dead’ which naturally i joined in with. About three months ago my grand daughter was on stage at Newport’s Dolman Theatre as one of the lead Munchkins in her musical theatre group’s performance of the Wizard of Oz and there are two occasions where that song is sung, and on both occasions there was SIGNIFICANT ‘audience participation’ In fact of course it was her imposition of the Right To Buy WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DENYING councils the right, and starving them of funds to even start to replace that stock, which did far more, and more long lasting damage. Almost all the men she threw on the scrap heap are dead now, mainly thanks to the lousy working conditions down the pits and the apalling problems the dust gave them, but the housing shortage her right to buy and denial of supply continuation generated will be with us for a thousand years Right to buy should have gone hand in hand with obligation to replace. If that had happened, our country would be quite different now. Right to buy was not a bad thing, it just needed additional policies to go with it. Yes, i agree 100%. An additional problem is that almost all the private housing erected at the time right to buy was enacted were below the required minimum standards in terms of room size and property density for council housing. My middle brother was a plant electrician at the steelworks Maggie shut down and he was able prior to that to make use of his status as a ‘key worker’ to get council housing. His place was nearly twice the size of the terraced house we bought from Wimpey the year i went into the business of designing better ways to kill people but Thatcher’s favourite developer Barratt was a specialist in building rabbit hutch homes, they had special cupboards and washing machines and fridges that were a couple of inches smaller than Curry’s and MFI’s ones. I know because i viewed a Barratt estate in Cwmbran which had in built white goods where the prices were 10% lower than Newport. We bought in Newport because transport links from Cwmbran to Cardiff were dire, and brought our own white goods from the flat. Had we bought Barratt our existing fridge, freezer and cooker would not have fitted in the spaces. Madness. Utter fucking madness The other problem with private housing not meeting council standards was that when Maggie’s interest rates rose to the point two out of three homes on these estates were reposessed, council buyers couldn’t buy anyvas none met their size minima |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 11:25:51 GMT
Loved. The privatisations are a bit of a foul up, having said that, state run stuff is a disgrace. Thatcher could not forsee criminality, Cambridgeshire water pump shite into rivers etc. There is no winning, unless you micro manage. As for the miners you cant have an industry that creates stuff that no one wants to buy, Poland at the time were selling coal at a fraction of the price. The miners argument was that communities were being destroyed, i still havent stopped laughing at that. Which brings up no 3 Thatcher ran Britain to make a profit. The sad truth is that someone, somewhere, has to make money to pay for the luxuries we enjoy, try telling that to a red. Courage, her main quality....to stand up to the banshee left. Thank you Maggie. It was North Sea gas which destroyed the miner's jobs. Lady Thatcher was just the receivers.
Like you don't blame the funeral directors for the person's death - do you.
|
|
|
|
Post by bancroft on Apr 17, 2023 11:07:24 GMT
The thing i recall is at school in a London comprehensive one boy said the country was going down the pan ( I think he was referring to the strikes) and we needed a change. I only remember as no-one spoke about politics at school it was a taboo area.
Thatcher was the change and I started work at 19 in 1985 during her tenure and went into banking as I was too shortsighted for the army and police.
|
|
|
|
Post by patman post on Apr 17, 2023 11:44:32 GMT
The thing i recall is at school in a London comprehensive one boy said the country was going down the pan ( I think he was referring to the strikes) and we needed a change. I only remember as no-one spoke about politics at school it was a taboo area. Thatcher was the change and I started work at 19 in 1985 during her tenure and went into banking as I was too shortsighted for the army and police. Judging by some posts by those claiming to be ex-military, you’d have left short-sighted even if you entered with 20/20 vision... |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 18, 2023 11:05:13 GMT
Love or Hate is the wrong question: Thatcher was an absolute requirement at the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Apr 18, 2023 16:06:07 GMT
Love or Hate is the wrong question: Thatcher was an absolute requirement at the time. Perhaps,but you have to admit she was a marmite character. |
|
I know you’re not some stroppy teenager.
