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Post by Einhorn on Mar 31, 2023 23:44:57 GMT
Where to start? How about your claim that the UK wasn't sovereign when it was a member of the EU? I predict that you will come back with your usual response that the 1972 Act gave precedence to EU Regulations. What you won't mention is that the 1972 Act was itself an act of the UK Parliament, and that any precedence accorded EU Regulations stemmed from the command of the sovereign UK Parliament. Oh ffs are you for real. Einy, it is a matter of fact that EU law is 'supreme'. The EU said so. And when conflict arises between EU and national law, national laws must be set aside. How sovereign in your opinion is a country who's laws can be overruled? eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html If international agreements can't be overruled by Parliament, what was the point of the government's legislation making asylum seekers who enter the country by illegal means subject to prosecution? The Refugee Convention prohibits that. If Parliament can override that international agreement, it could also have overridden its international agreement with the EU. Do you want to know why that is? It's because Parliament is sovereign and no international agreement can take away that sovereignty. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 31, 2023 23:47:29 GMT
If international agreements can't be overruled by Parliament, what was the point of the government's legislation making asylum seekers who enter the country by illegal means subject to prosecution? LOL, excellent. Einy, stop prevaricating. The primacy of EU law is a fact, and you know it. |
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Post by Einhorn on Mar 31, 2023 23:48:48 GMT
If international agreements can't be overruled by Parliament, what was the point of the government's legislation making asylum seekers who enter the country by illegal means subject to prosecution? LOL, excellent. Einy, stop prevaricating. The primacy of EU law is a fact, and you know it. Do you know the difference between explaining and prevaricating, Red? And I know no such thing. It's a constitutional impossibility for Parliament to transfer its sovereignty to a foreign power. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2023 0:00:26 GMT
LOL, excellent. Einy, stop prevaricating. The primacy of EU law is a fact, and you know it. Do you know the difference between explaining and prevaricating, Red? And I know no such thing. It's a constitutional impossibility for Parliament to transfer its sovereignty to a foreign power. Do you accept the primacy of EU law? |
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 1, 2023 0:03:08 GMT
Do you know the difference between explaining and prevaricating, Red? And I know no such thing. It's a constitutional impossibility for Parliament to transfer its sovereignty to a foreign power. Do you accept the primacy of EU law? Do you recognise that Parliament has just passed a law that directly contradicts the Refugee Convention? Can you explain how that is possible if Parliament is unable to override international agreements (the Refugee Convention and the UK's agreement with the EU are/were international agreements)? If Parliament is not sovereign, how could that possibly have happened? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2023 0:09:48 GMT
Do you accept the primacy of EU law? Do you recognise that Parliament has just passed a law that directly contradicts the Refugee Convention? Can you explain how that is possible if Parliament is unable to override international agreements (the Refugee Convention and the UK's agreement with the EU are/were international agreements)? If Parliament is not sovereign, how could that possibly have happened? Do you accept the primacy of EU law? |
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 1, 2023 0:12:11 GMT
Do you recognise that Parliament has just passed a law that directly contradicts the Refugee Convention? Can you explain how that is possible if Parliament is unable to override international agreements (the Refugee Convention and the UK's agreement with the EU are/were international agreements)? If Parliament is not sovereign, how could that possibly have happened? Do you accept the primacy of EU law? What do you mean? Are you asking me if the EU was sovereign in the UK legal system when the UK was a full member? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2023 0:25:22 GMT
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 1, 2023 0:27:47 GMT
No, I don't accept that the EU law had primacy in the UK courts. The UK Parliament could have expressly or impliedly repealed the 1972 Act at any time it chose, and the UK courts would have been obliged to comply with Parliament's wishes. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2023 0:37:08 GMT
No, I don't accept that the EU law had primacy in the UK courts. The UK Parliament could have expressly or impliedly repealed the 1972 Act at any time it chose, and the UK courts would have been obliged to comply with Parliament's wishes. Again you prevaricate. I never mentioned the UK, and the link doesn't mention the UK. Let me remind you, again. It's the EU who say their law, EU law, is supreme. eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html |
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 1, 2023 0:41:21 GMT
No, I don't accept that the EU law had primacy in the UK courts. The UK Parliament could have expressly or impliedly repealed the 1972 Act at any time it chose, and the UK courts would have been obliged to comply with Parliament's wishes. Again you prevaricate. I never mentioned the UK, and the link doesn't mention the UK. Let me remind you, again. It's the EU who say their law, EU law, is supreme. eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.htmlYes, the EU requires its members to give supremacy to their regulations if they wish to remain members. When the UK joined the EU, the government at the time said, 'We will introduce a law that gives supremacy to EU regulations. We choose to do that. But we cannot bind a future Parliament. They are sovereign. If they choose to ignore EU regulations, there is nothing that can be done about that because Parliament is sovereign under the UK constitution.' |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2023 0:48:22 GMT
Yes, the EU requires its members to give supremacy to their regulations if they wish to remain members. When the UK joined the EU, the government at the time said, 'We will introduce a law that gives supremacy to EU regulations. We choose to do that. But we cannot bind a future Parliament. They are sovereign. If they choose to ignore EU regulations, there is nothing that can be done about that because Parliament is sovereign under the UK constitution.' Jesus you really don't want to say it do you. Einy, we are not discussing regulations. It's called, in fact the EU called it, " The primacy of EU law". There is no grey area, EU law is supreme. The EU say so, so stop fucking about with words like 'regulations'. |
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 1, 2023 0:53:57 GMT
Yes, the EU requires its members to give supremacy to their regulations if they wish to remain members. When the UK joined the EU, the government at the time said, 'We will introduce a law that gives supremacy to EU regulations. We choose to do that. But we cannot bind a future Parliament. They are sovereign. If they choose to ignore EU regulations, there is nothing that can be done about that because Parliament is sovereign under the UK constitution.' Jesus you really don't want to say it do you. Einy, we are not discussing regulations. It's called, in fact the EU called it, " The primacy of EU law". There is no grey area, EU law is supreme. The EU say so, so stop fucking about with words like 'regulations'. But EU laws were only applied in the UK because the UK Parliament commanded the courts to recognise it. The UK Parliament could have changed its mind at any point and ordered the courts to completely ignore the EU. The UK courts would have obeyed Parliament. Take a guess as to why that is, Red. Yep, you got it: it's because Parliament is and always has been sovereign. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2023 1:00:25 GMT
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Post by Einhorn on Apr 1, 2023 1:09:25 GMT
The EU has said that the members must recognise EU laws as a condition of membership. That is not the same thing as EU law being supreme in the UK. If you knew the slightest thing about the constitution, you would know that it's impossible for the UK Parliament to transfer its sovereignty to another entity. You complain a lot about immigrants, Red; but the fact is one of them is far more likely to pass a citizenship exam than you. |
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