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Post by Pacifico on Apr 1, 2023 10:50:38 GMT
What if I posted and reposted over and over again that the excessive borrowing during the Covid emergency was "all the Tories fault" ? Why not introduce some honesty into the debate Sid - if you want to try being honest for once you would admit that the years when the the UK Budget Deficit was in surplus was when Labour were following Tory spending plans. But of course I would never expect such honesty..  |
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Post by Steve on Apr 1, 2023 10:55:34 GMT
And we know that after leaving the EU the Tories had to obey the EU. And here we are 13 years later still blaming it on Labour. Time to grow up. The EU stopped their action against the UK for excessive deficits before we left (2017) as the Tories had reduced the level to below the EU limit. Stick to the facts if you want to appear to be grown up.. They never invoked it against the UK did they. What you posted earlier wasn't true and what you posted ^ now wasn't either
'Although EU law provides for sanctions where Member States do not correct budgetary imbalances when they are subject to an EDP,109 the UK is exempt from these by virtue of Protocol 15 to the Treaties.
10.2The other Member States confirmed the existence of a persistent budget deficit in the UK in April 2009 and in June 2015, although they recognised that the Government had implemented a fiscal consolidation programme following the financial crisis. The European Commission in November 2017 published its latest economic forecasts, which showed that the UK’s deficit had decreased to 2.3 per cent in 2016–17, and was expected to remain below 3 per cent over the forecast horizon in 2020.
10.3Based on these new statistics, the EU’s Finance Ministers on 5 December 2017 formally abrogated the UK’s Excessive Deficit Procedure. This means the UK is now subject to the “preventative arm” of the Stability and Growth Pact, where the Commission monitors government debt and deficit but no policy recommendations are made unless there is a perceived risk that the SGP’s thresholds could be exceeded.'publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmeuleg/301-ix/30113.htm |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 1, 2023 10:55:36 GMT
Indeed - it is high time we all had some truth..  And you speak of truth whilst posting that crap? Every sensible person knows that this was just a joke note, which the Tories weaponised, and Labour was utterly stupid not to have foreseen that they would. And that is the actual truth. Well it was not crap - even Labour admitted that by 2010 the cupboard was bare and that they would be implementing massive spending cuts.  |
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Post by Steve on Apr 1, 2023 10:56:33 GMT
What if I posted and reposted over and over again that the excessive borrowing during the Covid emergency was "all the Tories fault" ? Why not introduce some honesty into the debate Sid - if you want to try being honest for once you would admit that the years when the the UK Budget Deficit was in surplus was when Labour were following Tory spending plans. But of course I would never expect such honesty.. Oh the irony |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 10:56:52 GMT
What if I posted and reposted over and over again that the excessive borrowing during the Covid emergency was "all the Tories fault" ? Why not introduce some honesty into the debate Sid - if you want to try being honest for once you would admit that the years when the the UK Budget Deficit was in surplus was when Labour were following Tory spending plans. But of course I would never expect such honesty.. So here are your double standards in a nutshell. If the deficit balloons due to external global factors under Labour it is Labour's fault. But if the deficit balloons due to external global factors under the Tories, it is NOT the Tories' fault but the fault of those external global factors. Once this inherent fact is understood, your argument loses all credibility by being shown to be brazenly partisan, and in that wilfully dishonest. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 1, 2023 11:01:25 GMT
Sid - if you want to try being honest for once you would admit that the years when the the UK Budget Deficit was in surplus was when Labour were following Tory spending plans. But of course I would never expect such honesty.. So here are your double standards in a nutshell. If the deficit balloons due to external global factors under Labour it is Labour's fault. But if the deficit balloons due to external global factors under the Tories, it is NOT the Tories' fault but the fault of those external global factors. Once this inherent fact is understood, your argument loses all credibility by being shown to be brazenly partisan, and in that wilfully dishonest. Interesting idea - but as I never claimed any of that somewhat redundant. Care to have a punt at the point I was making - If Labour were so fiscally sound that they had more years of budget surplus than the Tories why were they following Tory spending plans at the time?.....and what happened as soon as they stopped following those plans? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 11:04:18 GMT
And you speak of truth whilst posting that crap? Every sensible person knows that this was just a joke note, which the Tories weaponised, and Labour was utterly stupid not to have foreseen that they would. And that is the actual truth. Well it was not crap - even Labour admitted that by 2010 the cupboard was bare and that they would be implementing massive spending cuts. A situation entirely borne of external global factors. But Labour planned far less damaging and destructive cuts than your lot. Indeed the deficit spending under Gordon Brown saved us from economic disaster and was starting to generate rising growth rates which the Tories inherited. They rapidly killed that off by excessively swingeing and self defeating cuts, which generated a downward economic spiral. Anaemic growth has become the most damaging economic legacy of the Tories. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 1, 2023 11:07:50 GMT
I think that the idea that the Tories are fiscally responsible has been roundly thrown out in the last few years. Sunak has a year to show that he can reverse that impression. Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 11:11:50 GMT
So here are your double standards in a nutshell. If the deficit balloons due to external global factors under Labour it is Labour's fault. But if the deficit balloons due to external global factors under the Tories, it is NOT the Tories' fault but the fault of those external global factors. Once this inherent fact is understood, your argument loses all credibility by being shown to be brazenly partisan, and in that wilfully dishonest. Interesting idea - but as I never claimed any of that somewhat redundant. Care to have a punt at the point I was making - If Labour were so fiscally sound that they had more years of budget surplus than the Tories why were they following Tory spending plans at the time?.....and what happened as soon as they stopped following those plans? They stuck to Tory spending plans for two years because they said they would do so before the 1997 election to reassure the public. When they began to increase spending on schools and the NHS, for example, they did so within fairly strict fiscal rules, and indeed the deficit was still substantially lower before the global banking crisis than it had been for much of the time when the Tories were in office. Their spending not only greatly improved the NHS and education, but served as a fiscal stimulus delivering growth rates far higher than anything since 2010. This effectively grew the economy sufficiently to enable big spending increases without swingeing tax hikes. Was a far better economic record than that of your lot since 2010. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 11:14:17 GMT
I think that the idea that the Tories are fiscally responsible has been roundly thrown out in the last few years. Sunak has a year to show that he can reverse that impression. Good luck. I think the last 13 years have clearly demonstrated that. In economic terms what has got better since 2010? And what has got worse? When we think about that we realise that their record is appalling. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 1, 2023 11:51:58 GMT
Lol. That's what you are saying. I'm saying New Labour ran the budget really well as can be seen. The 2008 world banking crash reversed much of their work and put the deficit back up to Tory levels.13 years of Austerity from the Tories have put us in a strong position for another 13 years of Deficit. No thanks The 3 years of negative borrowing at the start of the Labour administration were when they were following Tory spending plans - as soon as they started following their own economic policy borrowing ballooned. And eventually what they handed over to the incoming Government in 2010 was a disaster zone that took 10 years to get a grip on. Oh you are funny. Its a shame the Tories didn't manage to keep the deficit low before labour got in then. And there's a gap between your 3 years of 'following tory spending plans' and the following 8 years of lower that Tory borrowing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 12:01:14 GMT
What Labour actually did 1997 - 2007, was to invest huge amounts into the NHS, education and public services without excessive borrowing.
The massive investment in the NHS employed many thousands of extra doctors and nurses. The waiting lists and waiting times were reversed and brought down, and public satisfaction in the NHS grew each year until reaching a peak in 2010.
The Tories have NOTHING at all to boast about, every public service is now worse, we have had 13 years of miserable growth, most people are worse off, and Tory supporters have the bare faced cheek to criticise the last Labour government.
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Post by zanygame on Apr 1, 2023 12:07:18 GMT
And you speak of truth whilst posting that crap? Every sensible person knows that this was just a joke note, which the Tories weaponised, and Labour was utterly stupid not to have foreseen that they would. And that is the actual truth. Well it was not crap - even Labour admitted that by 2010 the cupboard was bare and that they would be implementing massive spending cuts. I think there was a world banking crash and massive recession or something in 2008 🙄 |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 1, 2023 12:08:30 GMT
What Labour actually did 1997 - 2007, was to invest huge amounts into the NHS, education and public services without excessive borrowing. The massive investment in the NHS employed many thousands of extra doctors and nurses. The waiting lists and waiting times were reversed and brought down, and public satisfaction in the NHS grew each year until reaching a peak in 2010. The Tories have NOTHING at all to boast about, every public service is now worse, we have had 13 years of miserable growth, most people are worse off, and Tory supporters have the bare faced cheek to criticise the last Labour government. Be fair Sid, the wealth gap has grown substantially. 🤭 |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 1, 2023 12:16:14 GMT
No what you are actually all saying is however we look at it, the Westminster party put us up the creek without a paddle. then you tell us those who completely fecked up time and time again need to do it all over again. I find you lacking in any wisdom whatsoever. Why don't you stop telling me what I'm saying and say something yourself. Or is all you've got to say is that everyone else is crap and you are good at jeering from the side lines. No not everyone just pointing out that you surely lack wisdom. I had something to say they are all crap and have all made every situation worse. Which in actual fact most people agree with. |
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