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Post by Toreador on Mar 25, 2023 21:48:41 GMT
That it is called a representative democracy doesn't mean it's a democracy and just to let on, it isn't, not in the case of the EU or the UK. It is a form of democracy which so far has kept the UK out of the clutches of the real political dangers of any serious right-wing political takeover. Wrong again, it is not a democracy, it's political club, a playground if you like. How can you vote for a candidate that you know SFA about? |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 21:51:20 GMT
It is a form of democracy which so far has kept the UK out of the clutches of the real political dangers of any serious right-wing political takeover. Wrong again, it is not a democracy, it's political club, a playground if you like. How can you vote for a candidate that you know SFA about? And ven morse who chooses these irelvants? Certainly not one of the 400 million plus and that is for sure. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 25, 2023 21:57:13 GMT
Unfortunately the political classes would not enter into real debate over the EU until UKIP threatened the political system by getting more votes than either the SNP or Lib Dems yet no seats making a mockery of our political system. Now a movement is springing up in the Netherlands over the WEF's attack on farming and like England they feel over populated so immigration is no.2 on their grievances. Farming is also a contentious point in neighbouring Belgium amongst the Flemish. This is a problem with the EU, a democratic deficit where un-elected bodies like the WEF are allowed to drive policy. Your first sentence here is the real nub of the matter. Brexit supporters had no choice but to go for a quick decisive exit because the UK politicians had refused earlier calls for a slow down. So when the vote went through they demanded an immediate exit. I dont think you understand how the UK political system works. No Brexit supporter could demand anything - Parliament decides - hence the ridiculous Benn surrender Bill. we had 3 years of negotiation (the majority done by those who wanted to remain) - how many more did you have in mind? The EU's compromise offers only satisfied those who wanted to remain in the EU - they answered none of the issues that those wishing to leave had with the EU. |
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Post by vlk on Mar 25, 2023 22:32:30 GMT
You would really have to be a very hardline remainer to want to open up that can of worms and go through all that shit all over again. I don't think that there are a lot of people who see that appealing at all.
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 25, 2023 22:37:17 GMT
You would really have to be a very hardline remainer to want to open up that can of worms and go through all that shit all over again. I don't think that there are a lot of people who see that appealing at all. That depends on how you interpret the original question that was posed. It stated "should Labour say Brexit a Mistake", but people seem to be interpreting that as "should Labour campaign to rejoin", which is of course not the same thing. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 25, 2023 22:40:59 GMT
You would really have to be a very hardline remainer to want to open up that can of worms and go through all that shit all over again. I don't think that there are a lot of people who see that appealing at all. That depends on how you interpret the original question that was posed. It stated "should Labour say Brexit a Mistake", but people seem to be interpreting that as "should Labour campaign to rejoin", which is of course not the same thing. If you feel something was a mistake is it not normal to try and rectify that mistake? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 25, 2023 22:45:01 GMT
Not necessarily. As Steve said earlier, they may not consider it at this time and instead try to put mitigations in place. I suspect that Sunak is probably going to do similar and he was a Brexiteer.
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 22:53:20 GMT
Not necessarily. As Steve said earlier, they may not consider it at this time and instead try to put mitigations in place. I suspect that Sunak is probably going to do similar and he was a Brexiteer. And Like I stated the EUSSR will be no more by that time and the sooner the better.
EDIT:...... So let’s examine the facts.
The Eurozone is a busted flush held together by German financial muscle and largesse.
Portugal, Spain and Italy are walking a financial tightrope.
Greece is effectively bankrupt with no chance whatsoever of ever being able to pay back billions of loans to German and French banks.
And what vision of the EU do the bureaucrats of Brussels have for the future?
Tentative accession discussions with Turkey, Ukraine, Macedonia and Albania. What? Turkey isn’t even in Europe.
Is the EU going to become a political version of the Eurovision Song Contest?
Just imagine the EU’s borders would now be Syria, Iraq, Iran, Armenia, Georgia and Russia.
What do they say on the end of the Crimewatch TV programme after they’ve frightened the life out of you? Try not to lose too much sleep.
Remember this during Brexit negotiations. Just because it’s a rocky road doesn’t mean it’s the wrong road.
Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 25, 2023 22:58:34 GMT
Not necessarily. As Steve said earlier, they may not consider it at this time and instead try to put mitigations in place. I suspect that Sunak is probably going to do similar and he was a Brexiteer. And Like I stated the EUSSR will be no more by that time and the sooner the better. What evidence are you supplying for your "fact"? |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 22:59:22 GMT
And Like I stated the EUSSR will be no more by that time and the sooner the better. What evidence are you supplying for your "fact" Look where I added an Edit to my last post. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 25, 2023 23:14:59 GMT
Turkey is not joining the EU any time soon. I don't even think talks are ongoing.
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 23:19:56 GMT
Turkey is not joining the EU any time soon. I don't even think talks are ongoing. Have you explained that to the other remnants.....And my link provided more instances than just Turkey joining and even your master steve cannot dispute those whithout his trig point. If you are so sure about the EUSSR will still be hear in the future you would be able to dismantal any of those points made in my link. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 25, 2023 23:24:28 GMT
I can't "prove" it will exist, in the same way you can't "prove" it won't. I was merely clarifying that your "fact" was in truth just an opinion.
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 23:34:18 GMT
I can't "prove" it will exist, in the same way you can't "prove" it won't. I was merely clarifying that your "fact" was in truth just an opinion. But you cannot dismantal any of the points made. Notting the remain side states stands up under scrutiny.... Just look and the remaiin BS on this thread.....You and many others still try and persuade us that who are not easily fooled that the EUSSR are democratic..
EDIT: ‘This is not democracy’: European parliament unites to condemn selection of new EU Commission president behind closed doors
‘None of the presidents on the council would accept this being done in their countries. It would be taken to a constitutional court,’ says leader of largest group
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Post by Steve on Mar 26, 2023 0:04:35 GMT
Isn't it sad that all the uber Leavers have left is idiot imagining there is an 'EUSSR', abuse of anyone that tries to debate the issues properly, lying that sovereign nation decisions are somehow those of the EU and other lies.
One might get the impression they know their pyrrhic victory is turning out to be exactly that: pyrrhic
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