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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2023 10:33:09 GMT
Mainly due to the woke cancel culture, it is perfectly alright for a Tory or perceived right wing person to be shouted down and cancelled, think of JK Rowling, Jeremy Clarkson and so on, but as soon as anybody raises an eyebrow about clots like the crisp salesman Lineker coming up with rubbish it is all shrill cries of free speech from the lefties. I think that Roy "Chubby" Brown should be accorded free speech, but because he takes the piss out of mothers in law and Muslims he is cancelled by all the Labour Councils, but their leftie pin up Lineker can call the Tories the Third Reich and nothing must be said. The issue for me about Linekar is not about politics, or the Left or Right, it is about Libitarianism, and the rights of citizens as private individuals and freedom of expression. The problem with that framing is that Lineker works for an organisation that significantly breaks the libertarian ethic. If Lineker is to keep his rights intact, what about the rights of people currently coerced into contributing to his wages? These people's rights don't matter? Selective / inappropriate use of this ethic is pretty common. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 14, 2023 10:38:52 GMT
Under the existing mass migration circumstances how does one decide who is in genuine need of asylum and who isn't Even if successfully separated, what can be legally done with those who are here but are not entitled to asylum, when they have no ID and no Passport to prove which country they are from? It's easy, if they are picked up entering from France in a dinghy then we know they are not 'genuine' because they have 'paid' the traffickers to leave a 'safe' country, not rocket science. "IF" doesn't do it. Leaving a safe country doesn't automatically exclude them from being asylum seekers or of being people in need of safety. Being found in British waters or on British shores does not give the UK the right to enter French waters and off load them in France. There are Laws that the UK cannot just ignore even if it could be argued that they should. Rocket Science has to include the full picture. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 14, 2023 10:42:41 GMT
If a migrant has the means and the physical strength to travel from Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe then they are not vulnerable.
If they travel France then they are not seeking Asylum , they already have it . They are seeking a softer life than France can offer .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 10:44:28 GMT
Where does the slippery slope begin and end ?
When Garry Linekar clocks off and walks out of the BBC building, thats where the slope ends and begins
If Garry Linekar finishes his shift and walks into a pub for a drink, is he not allowed to join in a conversation at the bar about the EU, immigration, Ukraine, the NHS or the cost of living. ?
Public sector employees MUST have the same and equal rights as anyone else, and what you suggest would be to hold such people to ransome.
This argument you lost - the right decision has been made - now all we need is for the "Wrongs" done under Bumbling Boris's time, to be put "Right".
As the French say "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"
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Post by Bentley on Mar 14, 2023 10:56:02 GMT
Where does the slippery slope begin and end When Garry Linekar clocks off and walks out of the BBC building, thats where the slope ends and begins If Garry Linekar finishes his shift and walks into a pub for a drink, is he not allowed to join in a conversation at the bar about the EU, immigration, Ukraine, the NHS or the cost of living. Public sector employees MUST have the same and equal rights as anyone else, and what you suggest would be to hold such people to ransome. This argument you lost - the right decision has been made - now all we need is for the "Wrongs" done under Bumbling Boris's time, to be put "Right". As the French say "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" He didn’t walk into a pub. Some companies will tell you that posting derogatory remarks about the company or bringing the company into disrepute on social media will not be tolerated . They never mention anything about the pub. The BBC and licence payers money gave Lineker the high profile that he has today. He abused that by posting false political claims on social media . |
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2023 11:18:56 GMT
Where does the slippery slope begin and end When Garry Linekar clocks off and walks out of the BBC building, thats where the slope ends and begins If Garry Linekar finishes his shift and walks into a pub for a drink, is he not allowed to join in a conversation at the bar about the EU, immigration, Ukraine, the NHS or the cost of living. I would say no, but like many people in certain roles, he would be warned that if these controversial 'conversations' end up all over social media or in the news, he may have a problem with his contract. The slippery slope thing is far more problematic in the other direction. Does Gary have some kind of unalloyed right to collect payments from the public regardless of his public advocacy? Does the BBC, in principle, have no say at all here? What if Gary, rather than advocating for something you agree with strongly, starts advocating something you disagree with strongly? My view is that the best compromise here, assuming you want people to continue to be coerced to pay for the BBC, is that high profile people associated with the BBC lose their ability to use that profile to further their private advocacy. The freedom of speech argument is very weak here - nobody is forced to work for the BBC, but people are coerced to pay for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 11:33:25 GMT
If BBC employees want to make political statements they can go and work for a company that isn't publicly funded. I agree. I think the guidelines need to be strengthened up quite a hit for the social media age. You can either publicly express controversial political opinions, or you can be a recognisable BBC figure - not both. A big part of the problem is lack of consistency. Because others connected with the BBC seem free to voice their political opinions with apparent impunity as long as they are supportive of the government or critical of any of the government's opponents. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Mar 14, 2023 11:35:36 GMT
I agree. I think the guidelines need to be strengthened up quite a hit for the social media age. You can either publicly express controversial political opinions, or you can be a recognisable BBC figure - not both. A big part of the problem is lack of consistency. Because others connected with the BBC seem free to voice their political opinions with apparent impunity as long as they are supportive of the government or critical of any of the government's opponents. Who's the 'others'?
I don't know anyone connected to the BBC who's as brazen as jug ears, and he'll be even more brazen now the woke BBC have bowed down to him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 11:40:00 GMT
The state owns you
big brother is watching
be careful what you say
you cant hold that opinion
Do people really believe that Gary Linekar commenting about refugees / asylum seekers is going to influence the outcome of the next general election. ? Are you stark raving bonkers
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 11:58:27 GMT
A big part of the problem is lack of consistency. Because others connected with the BBC seem free to voice their political opinions with apparent impunity as long as they are supportive of the government or critical of any of the government's opponents. Who's the 'others'
I don't know anyone connected to the BBC who's as brazen as jug ears, and he'll be even more brazen now the woke BBC have bowed down to him.
Alan Sugar and Andrew Neil are forever voicing their political opinions in spite of their BBC connections. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2023 11:59:11 GMT
Nobody is suggesting Gary not be allowed to engage in controversial political advocacy, only that if he is to do so he not be funded by, and connected to, the BBC while doing so.
The BBC has special privileges and so everyone visibly involved in it has special responsibilities - this seems fair to me.
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2023 12:02:51 GMT
Who's the 'others'
I don't know anyone connected to the BBC who's as brazen as jug ears, and he'll be even more brazen now the woke BBC have bowed down to him.
Alan Sugar and Andrew Neil are forever voicing their political opinions in spite of their BBC connections. So has Gary without problems. His recent outburst, implying the governing party and a large fraction of UK public were nascent Nazis, was deemed to have 'gone beyond the pale' |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 12:38:09 GMT
Alan Sugar and Andrew Neil are forever voicing their political opinions in spite of their BBC connections. So has Gary without problems. His recent outburst, implying the governing party and a large fraction of UK public were nascent Nazis, was deemed to have 'gone beyond the pale' He did not imply that. He was merely criticising the extremist language being used and likening that to Nazi Germany. He was not calling either the government or its supporters Nazis. And talking of going beyond the pale, was not Alan Sugar telling his followers who to vote for in 2019 not also beyond the pale? Or are you too in favour of different rules for different people depending upon whose side they are on? |
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2023 12:50:01 GMT
So has Gary without problems. His recent outburst, implying the governing party and a large fraction of UK public were nascent Nazis, was deemed to have 'gone beyond the pale' He did not imply that. He was merely criticising the extremist language being used and likening that to Nazi Germany. But that argument about 'language used' is a load of horseshit. If you say that 'language used is reminiscent', then you are really communicating is that the 'views expressed' are reminiscent. Nobody is going to actually make any substantial point out of the fact that Germans in the 1930s used a particular word - technically speaking, German was typically used in Germany, not English In this case you are talking about views held by a sizeable fraction of the UK public . |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 14, 2023 12:54:43 GMT
How many times must you be told that Lineker did not use a BBC platform? Well if you read the room many of us disagree with you. You can't disagree with fact. Lineker did not use a BBC platform unless you think the BBC run Twitter. |
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