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Post by buccaneer on Mar 15, 2023 10:24:49 GMT
More bad news for the EU's race to the bottom model: "The EU's rules for public procurement are broken. They pave the way to a race to the bottom for working people," Oliver Roethig, regional secretary of UNI Europa, a European trade union federation representing seven million workers in the service sector, told EUobserver. "When only price is considered, it incentivises companies to cut corners". "Public contracts should not go to companies that seek a competitive advantage by suppressing workers' say and driving poverty wages and substandard working conditions", says their joint statement. euobserver.com/health-and-society/156829poverty wages eh. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 15, 2023 20:40:53 GMT
No it is my ambition to demonstrate to you that you are wrong. That you cannot increase UK wages simply by reducing the work force in the UK. Short term they do rise, but then all the other factors come into play. Well the classic example is Poland - massive growth that means they are catching up with the UK whilst actually seeing a reduction in population. It's productivity that matters not the size of your population.   That and the fact they are in the EU with its huge internal market and restrictive tariffs on goods from low wage countries. Are you proposing we re-join? |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 15, 2023 22:29:31 GMT
Well the classic example is Poland - massive growth that means they are catching up with the UK whilst actually seeing a reduction in population. It's productivity that matters not the size of your population. That and the fact they are in the EU with its huge internal market and restrictive tariffs on goods from low wage countries. Are you proposing we re-join? I hate to point out the obvious to you but we were in the EU when Poland started outperforming us - all whilst losing population. So does growing the economy through immigration or EU membership matter - you seem to be all over the place in this argument. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 15, 2023 23:01:24 GMT
That and the fact they are in the EU with its huge internal market and restrictive tariffs on goods from low wage countries. Are you proposing we re-join? I hate to point out the obvious to you but we were in the EU when Poland started outperforming us - all whilst losing population. So does growing the economy through immigration or EU membership matter - you seem to be all over the place in this argument. No I'm not all over the place, you are comparing apples and oranges. Poland was a low paid country given the opportunity to join the EU. This was a massive boost to their economy and it accelerated rapidly. We were already in and prospering. But Poland joining the EU gave them the benefits I described above. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 15, 2023 23:05:53 GMT
I hate to point out the obvious to you but we were in the EU when Poland started outperforming us - all whilst losing population. So does growing the economy through immigration or EU membership matter - you seem to be all over the place in this argument. No I'm not all over the place, you are comparing apples and oranges. Poland was a low paid country given the opportunity to join the EU. This was a massive boost to their economy and it accelerated rapidly. We were already in and prospering. But Poland joining the EU gave them the benefits I described above. So where does the need for Poland to start to have mass immigration come in? - is your argument that their growth will stop until they start importing workers? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 15, 2023 23:12:52 GMT
No I'm not all over the place, you are comparing apples and oranges. Poland was a low paid country given the opportunity to join the EU. This was a massive boost to their economy and it accelerated rapidly. We were already in and prospering. But Poland joining the EU gave them the benefits I described above. So where does the need for Poland to start to have mass immigration come in? - is your argument that their growth will stop until they start importing workers? I have not mentioned immigration, mass or otherwise. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 15, 2023 23:19:25 GMT
So where does the need for Poland to start to have mass immigration come in? - is your argument that their growth will stop until they start importing workers? I have not mentioned immigration, mass or otherwise. you said we could not grow the economy with a smaller workforce - but that is precisely what Poland is doing. As I said - it's productivity not population that matters. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 16, 2023 5:19:33 GMT
I hate to point out the obvious to you but we were in the EU when Poland started outperforming us - all whilst losing population. So does growing the economy through immigration or EU membership matter - you seem to be all over the place in this argument. No I'm not all over the place, you are comparing apples and oranges. Poland was a low paid country given the opportunity to join the EU. This was a massive boost to their economy and it accelerated rapidly. We were already in and prospering. But Poland joining the EU gave them the benefits I described above. It gave them the ability to shed a large slice of their population through FOM, people who were a drag on their economy but could spread across EU territory, become richer and send a lot of money back to their homeland to boost their economy. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 16, 2023 7:23:39 GMT
I have not mentioned immigration, mass or otherwise. you said we could not grow the economy with a smaller workforce - but that is precisely what Poland is doing. As I said - it's productivity not population that matters. No you didnt. I did. I carefully explained that a smaller workforce can be more productive than a large one so therefore the availability of workers does not necessarily push wages up or down. However it is good to see you are thinking further outside the box. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 16, 2023 7:25:58 GMT
No I'm not all over the place, you are comparing apples and oranges. Poland was a low paid country given the opportunity to join the EU. This was a massive boost to their economy and it accelerated rapidly. We were already in and prospering. But Poland joining the EU gave them the benefits I described above. So where does the need for Poland to start to have mass immigration come in? - is your argument that their growth will stop until they start importing workers? Probably if it increases productivity. More workers also increases tax revenue. It is a classic model for growth. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 16, 2023 7:42:39 GMT
you said we could not grow the economy with a smaller workforce - but that is precisely what Poland is doing. As I said - it's productivity not population that matters. No you didnt. I did. I carefully explained that a smaller workforce can be more productive than a large one so therefore the availability of workers does not necessarily push wages up or down.
However it is good to see you are thinking further outside the box. If you have a large availability of workers then you do not have a smaller workforce. Poland had a smaller workforce, and hence better productivity because its available workforce had shrunk and businesses needed to invest to expand as simply taking on more staff was an option no longer available. You should stop thinking about boxes and more about economic basics. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 16, 2023 7:43:09 GMT
So where does the need for Poland to start to have mass immigration come in? - is your argument that their growth will stop until they start importing workers? Probably if it increases productivity. More workers also increases tax revenue. It is a classic model for growth. not for individuals. |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 16, 2023 7:47:30 GMT
you said we could not grow the economy with a smaller workforce - but that is precisely what Poland is doing. As I said - it's productivity not population that matters. No you didnt. I did. I carefully explained that a smaller workforce can be more productive than a large one so therefore the availability of workers does not necessarily push wages up or down. However it is good to see you are thinking further outside the box. Currently, the EU needs FoM to control its lack of fiscal control as the OP states. In doing so, it keeps a lid on inflation by having FoM suppressing wages. Multi-corps love this and make huge profits at the expense of the average EU worker. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 16, 2023 8:25:26 GMT
I have not mentioned immigration, mass or otherwise. you said we could not grow the economy with a smaller workforce - but that is precisely what Poland is doing. As I said - it's productivity not population that matters. I said nothing of the sort. I said you cannot force up wages simply by cutting the work force. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 16, 2023 8:44:30 GMT
you said we could not grow the economy with a smaller workforce - but that is precisely what Poland is doing. As I said - it's productivity not population that matters. I said nothing of the sort. I said you cannot force up wages simply by cutting the work force. |
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