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Post by buccaneer on Mar 10, 2023 10:38:18 GMT
This thread is about how workers' wages are purposefully suppressed because of a design flaw in EU policy, and how corporations are making profits from this within the EU. yet the uk has long been known these past 15 years or so as the low wage low productivity economy of western europe , with the productivity levels worse than any of our neighbouring countires.
U.K. living standards and wages have fallen significantly behind those of Western Europe. By some measures, in fact, real wages in the U.K. are lower than they were 15 years ago, and will likely be even lower next year
This thread isn't about the UK. There are plenty of threads fear mongering about The Great Britain. This isn't one of them William. Jog on. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 10, 2023 10:42:40 GMT
yet the uk has long been known these past 15 years or so as the low wage low productivity economy of western europe , with the productivity levels worse than any of our neighbouring countires.
U.K. living standards and wages have fallen significantly behind those of Western Europe. By some measures, in fact, real wages in the U.K. are lower than they were 15 years ago, and will likely be even lower next year
This thread isn't about the UK. There are plenty of threads fear mongering about The Great Britain. This isn't one of them William. Jog on. you De facto mentioned the uk in the op you crackpot when you brought both brexit and former pm tony blair into it. We can talk about whatever we like within the ebb and flow of debate , and compare and contrast. Which is of course what you fear , that however shit you make the eu out to be, the uk comes in even worse.....  |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 10, 2023 10:59:32 GMT
Or, as the economic analyst Matt Klein puts it, “Take out Greater London—the prosperity of which depends to an uncomfortable degree on a willingness to provide services to oligarchs from the Middle East and the former Soviet Union—and the UK is one of the poorest countries in Western Europe.
New analysis reveals the UK has the highest levels of poverty of any neighbouring country, according to OECD data.
The UK is in a worse position than all 13 neighbouring countries
The analysis from the House of Commons Library has revealed that the UK has the highest poverty rate of every country in north west Europe, with 11.7% of people living below the poverty line under the OECD definition.
Sorry, this thread isn't about your obsession with the UK. This thread is about how workers' wages are purposefully suppressed because of a design flaw in EU policy, and how corporations are making profits from this within the EU. Exactly, and he'd drag us all back into that flawed policy. |
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Post by Steve on Mar 10, 2023 11:08:40 GMT
Wages rising with inflation is one thing if they rise above inflation, but if they rise below inflation, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. There's 8 million people in France in poverty. mondediplo.com/2021/10/13food-boxThat's not good. That was the gist. But of course that flew by StevieMe. Corperations making profit while wages are suppressed. Champion legacy that. Look no one forced you to copy and paste their false words into your own thread title. You could have used quote marks but you didn't because you wanted to own the statement. And it's been shown to be false and had you read your linked article you'd see the body of it doesn't support the idiot headline Anyway his rigidly linked inflation - profits - wages model is deeply flawed because it only works with a closed economy where all the product of work for wages is consumed in that same economy. Well imports and exports are a huge distortion on that. And you'll see he made no comparison with the UK Go pick some major EU and UK companies and look at the return on revenue profit margins. You'll see this whole premise of excessive profits is a complete crock. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2023 11:19:32 GMT
They did compared to profits. Read the link. I'm not interested in your autistic sophistry. Oh. You, mean wages fell relative to company profits.  I thought you were saying wages fell in absolute terms, not in relation to company profits. You have to explain yourself because your assertion ends up looking like this: Wages went up but not at the same rate as profits. Therefore, wages did not fall. Or are you referring to growth rates? |
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Post by thomas on Mar 10, 2023 11:23:29 GMT
Sorry, this thread isn't about your obsession with the UK. This thread is about how workers' wages are purposefully suppressed because of a design flaw in EU policy, and how corporations are making profits from this within the EU. Exactly, and he'd drag us all back into that flawed policy. are you talking about me vinny? i cant drag you anywhere mate. Im one man with one vote. Im simply comparing your uk with your French link. Poverty exists in most countires , but you cant just cherry pick one countires alleged poverty rate and not compare it to your own to give context.
UK Families ‘Nearly £9,000 Worse Off’ Compared to Other Countries, Report Says
They are 9% poorer than their counterparts in France, while the poorest fifth of households in Britain are now over 20% worse off than their French and German equivalents.
While the top 10% of households in Britain were richer than those in many other European countries, middle-income British households were 9% poorer than their counterparts in France, while the poorest fifth of households in Britain were more than 20% poorer than their French and German equivalents.
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 10, 2023 23:43:41 GMT
That was the gist. But of course that flew by StevieMe. Corperations making profit while wages are suppressed. Champion legacy that. Look no one forced you to copy and paste their false words into your own thread title. You could have used quote marks but you didn't because you wanted to own the statement. And it's been shown to be false and had you read your linked article you'd see the body of it doesn't support the idiot headline Anyway his rigidly linked inflation - profits - wages model is deeply flawed because it only works with a closed economy where all the product of work for wages is consumed in that same economy. Well imports and exports are a huge distortion on that. And you'll see he made no comparison with the UK Go pick some major EU and UK companies and look at the return on revenue profit margins. You'll see this whole premise of excessive profits is a complete crock. Wages are purposefully supressed in the EU due to a lack of fiscal union, hence the need for FoM where corporations are encouraged to source cheaper labour. They run up huge profits paying little more in wages while inflation runs rampant too for employers. These events are as bad in the EU if not worse in the EU because the EU is some sort of barstardised federation where it is dependent on the suppression of wages to keep a lid on its precariously fundamental flaws. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 11, 2023 7:08:47 GMT
If the EU had sought to create fiscal union before monetary union, the thing would work.
They need a standard minimum wage for the whole EU based on the cost of living in the most expensive bit of it applied across the board, including in the cheapest bits of it.
They need a standard tax system.
What they have is economic Darwinism.
A survival of the fittest free for all in which big businesses seek out the cheapest labour.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 11, 2023 7:52:09 GMT
Interesting stat in the Telegraph this morning - the lack of growth in the EU is simply astounding.
Its share of global GDP has halved in the past four decades, from around 30 per cent of global GDP in 1980 to just 15 per cent today. Over the same period, America's share has fallen from 25 per cent of global output to 24 per cent. As Asia and Africa grew richer, so too did the US, but the EU stagnated.
Forty years ago, the EU was the largest economic bloc in the world, but now it is in third place behind the US and China, and getting smaller all the time.
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 11, 2023 10:51:36 GMT
The simplistic comparison between wages and profits is unrealistic.
Profits not only take in wages but more than that, depend on productivity...output per employee, corporation tax, chargeable costs of transport and export, costs of imports decided by country of source, cost of energy, even costs of transport and health cover for employees. Tax on profits, value of comparative currencies and other overheads like communications and corporate entertainment.
If companies large enough to be listed on a stock market do not make profits, tens of millions of people holding private pensions or life insurance policies would go bankrupt.
Instead of raising employees wages which increases inflation, the astronomical wages and bonuses and handshakes of the top people should be reduced.
Unfortunately these top people are like rare jewellery...there are very few and so can name their price.
And finally the EU does not regulate wages. If a lorry driver thinks s/he isnt being paid enough they can aoply to work anywhere in the EU where qualifications are equally considered and there is open competition for employees.
It is called capitalism.
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2023 15:33:52 GMT
Look no one forced you to copy and paste their false words into your own thread title. You could have used quote marks but you didn't because you wanted to own the statement. And it's been shown to be false and had you read your linked article you'd see the body of it doesn't support the idiot headline Anyway his rigidly linked inflation - profits - wages model is deeply flawed because it only works with a closed economy where all the product of work for wages is consumed in that same economy. Well imports and exports are a huge distortion on that. And you'll see he made no comparison with the UK Go pick some major EU and UK companies and look at the return on revenue profit margins. You'll see this whole premise of excessive profits is a complete crock. Wages are purposefully supressed in the EU due to a lack of fiscal union, hence the need for FoM where corporations are encouraged to source cheaper labour. They run up huge profits paying little more in wages while inflation runs rampant too for employers. These events are as bad in the EU if not worse in the EU because the EU is some sort of barstardised federation where it is dependent on the suppression of wages to keep a lid on its precariously fundamental flaws. Well first of all there is a BIG difference between 'in the EU' and 'by the EU' You've wandered into Vinny-esque 'if a man farts in a lift in Lille it's the fault of the EU' territory Does FoM undermine wages in richer countries? Yes as does tariff free trading arrangements. But is it the intent? No evidence of that. The bigger issue by far is the massive non EU immigration the UK has indulged in from even lower wage economies than any EU nation and its pursuit of trade deals with anybody. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 11, 2023 17:41:28 GMT
The simplistic comparison between wages and profits is unrealistic. Profits not only take in wages but more than that, depend on productivity...output per employee, corporation tax, chargeable costs of transport and export, costs of imports decided by country of source, cost of energy, even costs of transport and health cover for employees. Tax on profits, value of comparative currencies and other overheads like communications and corporate entertainment. If companies large enough to be listed on a stock market do not make profits, tens of millions of people holding private pensions or life insurance policies would go bankrupt. Instead of raising employees wages which increases inflation, the astronomical wages and bonuses and handshakes of the top people should be reduced. Unfortunately these top people are like rare jewellery...there are very few and so can name their price. And finally the EU does not regulate wages. If a lorry driver thinks s/he isnt being paid enough they can aoply to work anywhere in the EU where qualifications are equally considered and there is open competition for employees. It is called capitalism. That's why we, and other countries, were inundated with people happy to work at rates below the norm or the minimum wage. Complaints about this exodus weren't confined to Britain. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 12, 2023 7:08:57 GMT
Wages are purposefully supressed in the EU due to a lack of fiscal union, hence the need for FoM where corporations are encouraged to source cheaper labour. They run up huge profits paying little more in wages while inflation runs rampant too for employers. These events are as bad in the EU if not worse in the EU because the EU is some sort of barstardised federation where it is dependent on the suppression of wages to keep a lid on its precariously fundamental flaws. Well first of all there is a BIG difference between 'in the EU' and 'by the EU' You've wandered into Vinny-esque 'if a man farts in a lift in Lille it's the fault of the EU' territory Does FoM undermine wages in richer countries? Yes as does tariff free trading arrangements. But is it the intent? No evidence of that. The bigger issue by far is the massive non EU immigration the UK has indulged in from even lower wage economies than any EU nation and its pursuit of trade deals with anybody. Steve the fact of FOM RAISES wages. If I were an insurance salesman in Vienna and rralised the another company in Estonia offered a bigger percentage of sales as commission, I would apply for the job. Because I would have the right under FOM and parallel qualifications to apply for any position the offers me more money. This doesnt pressure the wages downwards. Ditto at any level of employment. One reason the UK NHS is lacking so many employees is that other countries pay more for the same jobs. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 12, 2023 7:50:24 GMT
Well first of all there is a BIG difference between 'in the EU' and 'by the EU' You've wandered into Vinny-esque 'if a man farts in a lift in Lille it's the fault of the EU' territory Does FoM undermine wages in richer countries? Yes as does tariff free trading arrangements. But is it the intent? No evidence of that. The bigger issue by far is the massive non EU immigration the UK has indulged in from even lower wage economies than any EU nation and its pursuit of trade deals with anybody.
If I were an insurance salesman in Vienna and rralised the another company in Estonia offered a bigger percentage of sales as commission, I would apply for the job. Because I would have the right under FOM and parallel qualifications to apply for any position the offers me more money. This doesnt pressure the wages downwards. Ditto at any level of employment. One reason the UK NHS is lacking so many employees is that other countries pay more for the same jobs. No it does not - when we had thousands of HGV drivers flooding into the UK from other parts of the EU they certainly did not raise wages. However, cut off that flow and wages shot up. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 12, 2023 8:09:32 GMT
It was never that simple.
The standard of working conditions in the UK relative to elsewhere was a large factor in wgere drivers chose to work, including queuing for hours at ports which cost them money.
Drivers wages went up all across Europe because of the fall of available labour due to Covid.
After restrictions were lifted, relatively few drivers volunteered to come to the UK.
Distance and time spent being inactive reduced their takehome pay.
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I thought you were saying wages fell in absolute terms, not in relation to company profits. 
