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Post by buccaneer on Mar 17, 2023 8:53:26 GMT
Allow us time to offer solutions - wonderful, that's nice of them. And after 4 years the UK would still have FoM and Europe's 'English as a second language' majority washing up on our shores suppressing NHS staff wages.  You cannot possibly know that. One of the big problems was the way our benefits system is structured including housing benefit, changes here would have had a dramatic effect. But while you were blaming the EU it was your own government that didn't want to stop FoM, you can see why now. Eventually it was a British government that stopped FoM. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 17, 2023 8:55:02 GMT
How long do you think that can last. Have you many other examples? Well it lasted until the market re-balanced itself. Brexit and the Pandemic produced a shortage of available labour - the market increased pay and conditions so as to attract labour to fill the vacancies and balance was restored. Paying more solved the shortage issue - it's how the market is supposed to work. Maybe on your planet. Demands for higher wages was about inflation. Nothing about Brexit. Balance have not been restored. I dont see teachers and doctors flocking to the UK because of the pay awards. I am aware that many still want to leave the country to go to Canada or Australia...an unofficial Freedom of Movement. . |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 17, 2023 8:58:27 GMT
You cannot possibly know that. One of the big problems was the way our benefits system is structured including housing benefit, changes here would have had a dramatic effect. But while you were blaming the EU it was your own government that didn't want to stop FoM, you can see why now. Eventually it was a British government that stopped FoM. There never was pure FoM in the UK. It didnt belong to Schengen and always demanded paperwork/passports to enter and leave. I note that Leavers are now making up reality in order to justify the struggles Brexit has brought. |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 17, 2023 9:07:02 GMT
Eventually it was a British government that stopped FoM. There never was pure FoM in the UK. It didnt belong to Schengen and always demanded paperwork/passports to enter and leave. I note that Leavers are now making up reality in order to justify the struggles Brexit has brought. Don't lie. The UK had FoM. End of. Now our Nurses can strike knowing full well EU migrants won't undercut their wages via the entitlement of FoM. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 17, 2023 12:32:27 GMT
There never was pure FoM in the UK. It didnt belong to Schengen and always demanded paperwork/passports to enter and leave. I note that Leavers are now making up reality in order to justify the struggles Brexit has brought. Don't lie. The UK had FoM. End of. Now our Nurses can strike knowing full well EU migrants won't undercut their wages via the entitlement of FoM. Dont lie. The UK never haf the same FoM as Schengen countries. And the NHS is crying out for more doctors and nurses. Finally anyone from the EU can work in the UK. They just have to fill out more paperwork. Best to stay within the realms of reality so you dont have to create a parallel world to justify Brexit. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 17, 2023 12:33:43 GMT
Well it lasted until the market re-balanced itself. Brexit and the Pandemic produced a shortage of available labour - the market increased pay and conditions so as to attract labour to fill the vacancies and balance was restored. Paying more solved the shortage issue - it's how the market is supposed to work. Maybe on your planet. Demands for higher wages was about inflation. Nothing about Brexit. Balance have not been restored. I dont see teachers and doctors flocking to the UK because of the pay awards. I am aware that many still want to leave the country to go to Canada or Australia...an unofficial Freedom of Movement. . We have record numbers flocking to Britain - I'd like to see less of them. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 17, 2023 12:39:16 GMT
Thee UK receives about the average number.
You are repeating propaganda.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 17, 2023 18:04:03 GMT
Thee UK receives about the average number. You are repeating propaganda. Not at all - we currently have record numbers of migrants arriving and the Government are planning on importing another million over the next 4 years. England is the most densely populated large country in Europe and people still flock here from all over the globe making the problems worse. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 17, 2023 19:11:44 GMT
But it didnt happen. That is why the Tories have offered doctors a higher tax threshold on pensions before they pay tax. The pay and conditions didnt fill vacancies. The NHS had to go head to head with the government to get something akun to an acceptable pay rise. The market doesnt set pay rates in the NHS - I already pointed this out to you once. The private sector have no problem attracting staff - precisely because they operate in the normal labour market where the going rate rises when they have to fill vacancies. Apologies. I missed that one and you are right on NHS nurses. But the private sector is not comparable as they cherry pick only those who can afford to pay more, so of course they can pay more. But that's a different conversation. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 17, 2023 19:17:01 GMT
As usual with you I would have to repeat myself about the other factors, but this time I can't be bothered. Well you can bang on about other factors all you like but 99% of the people in this county go to work to earn money. And the basic economic fact of life is that supply and demand matter. True but so what. Workers don't dictate their wages customers do. Pay £25 an hour to your dishwasher builders and see how many you sell compared to the Chinese made ones. Pay your barista's £16 an hour and go out of business. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 17, 2023 19:20:43 GMT
You cannot possibly know that. One of the big problems was the way our benefits system is structured including housing benefit, changes here would have had a dramatic effect. But while you were blaming the EU it was your own government that didn't want to stop FoM, you can see why now. Eventually it was a British government that stopped FoM. By swapping to other countries for its immigrants. Of course they could have stopped FoM without leaving their biggest customer and crippling the country, but hey ho. |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 17, 2023 21:46:52 GMT
Don't lie. The UK had FoM. End of. Now our Nurses can strike knowing full well EU migrants won't undercut their wages via the entitlement of FoM. Dont lie. The UK never haf the same FoM as Schengen countries. And the NHS is crying out for more doctors and nurses. Finally anyone from the EU can work in the UK. They just have to fill out more paperwork. Best to stay within the realms of reality so you dont have to create a parallel world to justify Brexit. The reality of Brexit is that Britain has left the EU. And you cannot get over it as your posting history shows. And now people of the EU are treated like every other citizen of nations world-wide (it's a level playing field now), having to apply for a visa. No more entitlement. No more undercutting wages. |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 17, 2023 21:50:02 GMT
Eventually it was a British government that stopped FoM. By swapping to other countries for its immigrants. Of course they could have stopped FoM without leaving their biggest customer and crippling the country, but hey ho. That's a new one! You only claimed recently the UK would have had four years to trim round the edges of FoM. But ultimately, it would have had to maintain FoM. Now you claim the UK could have stopped it. Well, the UK has stopped it and the country isn't crippled unfortunately for those who believed in project fear. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 17, 2023 21:57:09 GMT
By swapping to other countries for its immigrants. Of course they could have stopped FoM without leaving their biggest customer and crippling the country, but hey ho. That's a new one! You only claimed recently the UK would have had four years to trim round the edges of FoM. But ultimately, it would have had to maintain FoM. Now you claim the UK could have stopped it. Well, the UK has stopped it and the country isn't crippled unfortunately for those who believed in project fear. Fair do's. I didn't mean literally stop all FoM. I meant control it so we got the immigration we needed And you can claim all you like but the economics don't lie, the country is a shitstorm. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 17, 2023 22:16:22 GMT
Well you can bang on about other factors all you like but 99% of the people in this county go to work to earn money. And the basic economic fact of life is that supply and demand matter. True but so what. Workers don't dictate their wages customers do. Pay £25 an hour to your dishwasher builders and see how many you sell compared to the Chinese made ones. Pay your barista's £16 an hour and go out of business.
Pay for Baristas is set by the market. And as our small high street can support 7 coffee shops and 6 pubs flogging coffee I'd suggest the demand is there. You seem to want pay set by Government diktat - but we see where that has ended up with the state of the NHS. Just leave it to normal competitive pressures and wage rates will rise or fall to the correct levels. |
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