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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 19:33:08 GMT
Your maths has been found wanting before Zany. It is not a 25% rise in temperature you numpty. Temperatures start at 0 degrees K (absolute zero) and we live in an environment at about 288K. So what percentage is 0.8 degrees of 288K? As you have no knowledge of maths involving temperatures, perhaps you should keep a bit quieter about your favourite subject, which you clearly fail to understand at a basic level. Assuming Earth ambient temperature was absolute zero, but you know what, it isn't. its 15c. The areas I'm describing its 24c so a rise to 28c is.... Well I'll let your fantastic mathematical brain work it out for me. I'm hoping to educate you, nicely. What grade maths qualifications do you have? No worries, I will help you. In your world a temperature increase from 24C to 28C is a 25% rise, even though 4 is about 16% of 24. Now, 24C happens to be about 75 degrees F. 28C is 82 degrees F - So in degrees F an increase from 75F to 82F is 7/75 = 9.3%But in degrees K 24C = 297K and 28C is 301K so a rise is 4/297 or 1.3% rise. If you can get this you might understand why saying temperatures have gone up 25% is 100% wrong.
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 24, 2023 22:37:02 GMT
Assuming Earth ambient temperature was absolute zero, but you know what, it isn't. its 15c. The areas I'm describing its 24c so a rise to 28c is.... Well I'll let your fantastic mathematical brain work it out for me. I'm hoping to educate you, nicely. What grade maths qualifications do you have? No worries, I will help you. In your world a temperature increase from 24C to 28C is a 25% rise, even though 4 is about 16% of 24. Now, 24C happens to be about 75 degrees F. 28C is 82 degrees F - So in degrees F an increase from 75F to 82F is 7/75 = 9.3%But in degrees K 24C = 297K and 28C is 301K so a rise is 4/297 or 1.3% rise. If you can get this you might understand why saying temperatures have gone up 25% is 100% wrong. Ouch! I almost feel sorry for ZG. But not, quite. Excellent post.
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 2:25:07 GMT
I'm hoping to educate you, nicely. What grade maths qualifications do you have? No worries, I will help you. In your world a temperature increase from 24C to 28C is a 25% rise, even though 4 is about 16% of 24. Now, 24C happens to be about 75 degrees F. 28C is 82 degrees F - So in degrees F an increase from 75F to 82F is 7/75 = 9.3%But in degrees K 24C = 297K and 28C is 301K so a rise is 4/297 or 1.3% rise. If you can get this you might understand why saying temperatures have gone up 25% is 100% wrong. Ouch! I almost feel sorry for ZG. But not, quite. Excellent post. The school of bumburgh has a lot to answer for mate.
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 25, 2023 8:09:41 GMT
You've misunderstood what bodies like, for example, the IPCC are. I wouldn't even call the IPCC "a scientific institution" - and it's not a world leading anything. The clue is in the word "Intergovernmental". It was set up as a body to give advice to governments on climate. This is not a "scientific" organisation that employs scientists to do research into climate with the object of understanding what's going on - which would involve investigating all different (and often incompatible) theories. That would be of little use to governments. The IPCC recognises this and has tried to build a model based on various selected theories. And their model is based on the hypothesis that the main driver of warming is CO2. It also leaves out a lot of important factors because they're not yet understood. This is not a scientific body - although it employs scientists in many disciplines to inform their models. But these scientists are all working to the same script and their work is not peer reviewed. Anyone who doesn't believe their basic hypotheses is not employed. I don't think you've ever understood this, although it has been mentioned in many of the links that you've been given - but not read. And the recent example of the danger of politicians being guided by selected scientists during the pandemic should be a timely warning about how dangerous it can be. The lockdowns that have done so much damage to this country (and many others) came out of a model designed by Neil Ferguson - a model that has always got its predictions completely wrong. Yet politicians are still stupid enough the believe what they call "the science". There is NO such thing. Ok, so point to the scientific institute that disagrees with AGW. (BTW scientific institutes are not bloggers) but to be honest, its hard to keep up with the conspiracy claims, are scientific institutes tricking Western governments into bankruptcy or are they governmental scientific institutes lying for another reason. Its so hard to keep up. You always seem to miss the point. I wasn't talking about conspiracy theories or accusing the IPCC of lying. I was saying that the IPCC is not a scientific body (although it employs scientists) - it's a body set up to give advice to governments in the absence of any scientific consensus. So it's made a lot of assumptions and left out a lot of factors that we don't yet understand in order to make a rough guess about climate. Unfortunately - or predictably - it simply doesn't work. It's analogous to the Covid model that Sage relied on to make their predictions. We knew very little about Covid so the model was based on flu and it proved to be very badly wrong. That model caused the govt to make many very bad decisions, just as the IPCC model is doing. You should watch that clip of Richard Linzen that SP has posted. His conclusion is dead right. He says that that the efforts of the West to cut CO2 will have a negligible or zero effect on climate and that the best action to take would be to do the exact opposite. We should be making the world richer because that will allow us to better mitigate the effects of any climate change. But what we're actually doing is making the developed world poorer.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 8:38:46 GMT
Assuming Earth ambient temperature was absolute zero, but you know what, it isn't. its 15c. The areas I'm describing its 24c so a rise to 28c is.... Well I'll let your fantastic mathematical brain work it out for me. I'm hoping to educate you, nicely. What grade maths qualifications do you have? No worries, I will help you. In your world a temperature increase from 24C to 28C is a 25% rise, even though 4 is about 16% of 24. Now, 24C happens to be about 75 degrees F. 28C is 82 degrees F - So in degrees F an increase from 75F to 82F is 7/75 = 9.3%But in degrees K 24C = 297K and 28C is 301K so a rise is 4/297 or 1.3% rise. If you can get this you might understand why saying temperatures have gone up 25% is 100% wrong. Thank you for taking the time to do this. The obvious error is your assumption that the earths climate temperature could be absolute zero, when it could not in any meaningful way. I do hate it when people try and use maths to cheat people, so you have achieved something However I am going to use your method to sell my sons car. Its 10 years old, which sounds quite old, but it could last a thousand years before its gone, so I'm selling it as 1% through its life.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 8:40:54 GMT
I'm hoping to educate you, nicely. What grade maths qualifications do you have? No worries, I will help you. In your world a temperature increase from 24C to 28C is a 25% rise, even though 4 is about 16% of 24. Now, 24C happens to be about 75 degrees F. 28C is 82 degrees F - So in degrees F an increase from 75F to 82F is 7/75 = 9.3%But in degrees K 24C = 297K and 28C is 301K so a rise is 4/297 or 1.3% rise. If you can get this you might understand why saying temperatures have gone up 25% is 100% wrong. Ouch! I almost feel sorry for ZG. But not, quite. Excellent post. I'm sorry that you were so easily fooled. It genuinely saddens me to see it done on such an important issue.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 8:46:38 GMT
Ok, so point to the scientific institute that disagrees with AGW. (BTW scientific institutes are not bloggers) but to be honest, its hard to keep up with the conspiracy claims, are scientific institutes tricking Western governments into bankruptcy or are they governmental scientific institutes lying for another reason. Its so hard to keep up. You always seem to miss the point. I wasn't talking about conspiracy theories or accusing the IPCC of lying. I was saying that the IPCC is not a scientific body (although it employs scientists) - it's a body set up to give advice to governments in the absence of any scientific consensus. So it's made a lot of assumptions and left out a lot of factors that we don't yet understand in order to make a rough guess about climate. Unfortunately - or predictably - it simply doesn't work. It's analogous to the Covid model that Sage relied on to make their predictions. We knew very little about Covid so the model was based on flu and it proved to be very badly wrong. That model caused the govt to make many very bad decisions, just as the IPCC model is doing. You should watch that clip of Richard Linzen that SP has posted. His conclusion is dead right. He says that that the efforts of the West to cut CO2 will have a negligible or zero effect on climate and that the best action to take would be to do the exact opposite. We should be making the world richer because that will allow us to better mitigate the effects of any climate change. But what we're actually doing is making the developed world poorer. I'm tempted to stop responding to your endless versions of this. Once more. Scientists work from evidence, not proof. They base the assumptions they make on that evidence. The IPCC is a group of scientists who carried out this work. The fact you can find a guy posting on a blog that disagrees with the majority opinion carries no weight for me. Were it a peer reviewed paper that might be different.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 8:49:36 GMT
Point to a scientific institute that actually says 'we have found'. They usually refer to the IPCC reports when commenting on AGW. Being at odds with teh IPCC narrative does mean one is not invited onto IPCC panels and that one's funding is at risk. It is a bad career move to disagree with the narrative which is why most of the 'dissidents' are retired or unattached. It is a neat way to claim and keep a consensus. Worth a listen. wattsupwiththat.com/2023/03/23/climate-change-isnt-particularly-dangerous-richard-lindzen/Been through this. Science is about evidence. There is no facts, no proof unquestionable. Not on gravity, not on climate change. And no I'm not watching another video from the blogger on wattsupwiththat. wattsupwiththat is not a scientific institute. Of course wattsup is not a scientific institute but the interview with Richard Lindzen, a climatologist and involved in the first IPCC which the link provides for you, is much more than 'a blogger' and has belonged, and still does belong, to a scientific institute. If science is about evidence why ignore those who draw different conclusions from that very same evidence and more importantly why select only scientists that agree with a specific position if one is out to provide evidence of fact. It makes no sense in scientific terms, it only makes sense in conspiracy theory terms.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 8:55:51 GMT
Been through this. Science is about evidence. There is no facts, no proof unquestionable. Not on gravity, not on climate change. And no I'm not watching another video from the blogger on wattsupwiththat. wattsupwiththat is not a scientific institute. Of course wattsup is not a scientific institute but the interview with Richard Lindzen, a climatologist and involved in the first IPCC which the link provides for you, is much more than 'a blogger' and has belonged, and still does belong, to a scientific institute. If science is about evidence why ignore those who draw different conclusions from that very same evidence and more importantly why select only scientists that agree with a specific position if one is out to provide evidence of fact. It makes no sense in scientific terms, it only makes sense in conspiracy theory terms. I haven't ignored it. When this stuff first started being presented I diligently watched the youtube videos and read the blogs. Then looked into what they claimed. In each case they base their conclusions on "You can't prove I'm wrong" or "All the other scientists might not have the correct data" And here again your last sentence gives your position. Unless they can present evidence as fact, then the consensus could be wrong.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 9:31:26 GMT
Of course wattsup is not a scientific institute but the interview with Richard Lindzen, a climatologist and involved in the first IPCC which the link provides for you, is much more than 'a blogger' and has belonged, and still does belong, to a scientific institute. If science is about evidence why ignore those who draw different conclusions from that very same evidence and more importantly why select only scientists that agree with a specific position if one is out to provide evidence of fact. It makes no sense in scientific terms, it only makes sense in conspiracy theory terms. I haven't ignored it. When this stuff first started being presented I diligently watched the youtube videos and read the blogs. Then looked into what they claimed. In each case they base their conclusions on "You can't prove I'm wrong" or "All the other scientists might not have the correct data" And here again your last sentence gives your position. Unless they can present evidence as fact, then the consensus could be wrong. Hang on you, and many others, are demanding we almost self immolate to save the planet and you want us to take that on board with pretty sketchy evidence and the reports of an organisation that clearly ignores 'the science' that does not agree with it and claims a consensus. I can have a consensus on anything I like if I hand pick the people I want, tell everyone else the others are charlatans and only release the information that agrees with me. In a previous life we called that Sovietisation whereby contrary views were unhelpfu and dangerous to 'the truth'.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 15:30:34 GMT
I haven't ignored it. When this stuff first started being presented I diligently watched the youtube videos and read the blogs. Then looked into what they claimed. In each case they base their conclusions on "You can't prove I'm wrong" or "All the other scientists might not have the correct data" And here again your last sentence gives your position. Unless they can present evidence as fact, then the consensus could be wrong. Hang on you, and many others, are demanding we almost self immolate to save the planet and you want us to take that on board with pretty sketchy evidence and the reports of an organisation that clearly ignores 'the science' that does not agree with it and claims a consensus. I can have a consensus on anything I like if I hand pick the people I want, tell everyone else the others are charlatans and only release the information that agrees with me. In a previous life we called that Sovietisation whereby contrary views were unhelpfu and dangerous to 'the truth'. Nobody is claiming anything of the sort. You saying it does not make it so. I do not believe switching to renewable energy will immolate the West. Indeed even without the pressure of global warming I think moving to free sustainable self generated energy is a great idea. Not more OPEC, no more Putin. Beyond that the fact you can find a few dozen scientists that challenge small parts of the conclusions or disagree with degrees of the change we can anticipate, makes no difference because the large majority of scientists stand by the figures.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 16:22:22 GMT
Hang on you, and many others, are demanding we almost self immolate to save the planet and you want us to take that on board with pretty sketchy evidence and the reports of an organisation that clearly ignores 'the science' that does not agree with it and claims a consensus. I can have a consensus on anything I like if I hand pick the people I want, tell everyone else the others are charlatans and only release the information that agrees with me. In a previous life we called that Sovietisation whereby contrary views were unhelpfu and dangerous to 'the truth'. Nobody is claiming anything of the sort. You saying it does not make it so. I do not believe switching to renewable energy will immolate the West. Indeed even without the pressure of global warming I think moving to free sustainable self generated energy is a great idea. Not more OPEC, no more Putin. Beyond that the fact you can find a few dozen scientists that challenge small parts of the conclusions or disagree with degrees of the change we can anticipate, makes no difference because the large majority of scientists stand by the figures. Which of the many 'anticipations' we have had over the last three decades have worked out as anticipated? Moving to renewable energy is not a problem unless it results in energy shortages, which it has, so is a problem in terms of continuity and in terms of cost. The 'few dozen scientists' use the figures as used by the IPCC to illustrate their agenda. It is hardly the fault of these 'few' that the IPCC figures can be shown to be at best suspect at worst falsified.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 17:06:49 GMT
Nobody is claiming anything of the sort. You saying it does not make it so. I do not believe switching to renewable energy will immolate the West. Indeed even without the pressure of global warming I think moving to free sustainable self generated energy is a great idea. Not more OPEC, no more Putin. Beyond that the fact you can find a few dozen scientists that challenge small parts of the conclusions or disagree with degrees of the change we can anticipate, makes no difference because the large majority of scientists stand by the figures. Which of the many 'anticipations' we have had over the last three decades have worked out as anticipated? Moving to renewable energy is not a problem unless it results in energy shortages, which it has, so is a problem in terms of continuity and in terms of cost. The 'few dozen scientists' use the figures as used by the IPCC to illustrate their agenda. It is hardly the fault of these 'few' that the IPCC figures can be shown to be at best suspect at worst falsified. You mean which worked out exactly as predicted? Ah you got me there. Its not even got any warmer. The glaciers haven't receded by 5.5 gigatons since 1990. Droughts, floods, hurricanes, blizzards haven't increased at all. The Bering Straits are not clear of ice and navigable all year. And all while the sun is 3/4 of the way to its solar minimum. They're just making it all up. Now the bloke on You tube, he really knows all the facts.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 17:42:13 GMT
Which of the many 'anticipations' we have had over the last three decades have worked out as anticipated? Moving to renewable energy is not a problem unless it results in energy shortages, which it has, so is a problem in terms of continuity and in terms of cost. The 'few dozen scientists' use the figures as used by the IPCC to illustrate their agenda. It is hardly the fault of these 'few' that the IPCC figures can be shown to be at best suspect at worst falsified. You mean which worked out exactly as predicted? Ah you got me there. Its not even got any warmer. The glaciers haven't receded by 5.5 gigatons since 1990. Droughts, floods, hurricanes, blizzards haven't increased at all. The Bering Straits are not clear of ice and navigable all year. And all while the sun is 3/4 of the way to its solar minimum. They're just making it all up. Now the bloke on You tube, he really knows all the facts. He knows that what was meant to happen has not because it is becoming warmer, he knows that C02 has increased and the relative rise in temrperature has not occurred, he knows that some glaciers are increasing, he knows that droughts, floods hurricanes and blizzards are not at odds with the historical record and are not accelerating in strength or frequency. As for ice free areas some of these also happened in 1922, he knows that as well.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 19:57:54 GMT
You mean which worked out exactly as predicted? Ah you got me there. Its not even got any warmer. The glaciers haven't receded by 5.5 gigatons since 1990. Droughts, floods, hurricanes, blizzards haven't increased at all. The Bering Straits are not clear of ice and navigable all year. And all while the sun is 3/4 of the way to its solar minimum. They're just making it all up. Now the bloke on You tube, he really knows all the facts. He knows that what was meant to happen has not because it is becoming warmer, he knows that C02 has increased and the relative rise in temrperature has not occurred, he knows that some glaciers are increasing, he knows that droughts, floods hurricanes and blizzards are not at odds with the historical record and are not accelerating in strength or frequency. As for ice free areas some of these also happened in 1922, he knows that as well. That one alone shows the lie you are prepared to live. How many glaciers are growing? One? Two. Frankly such lies are disgusting because those who so want it all to go away cling to them for succour. Its the same with all your other cherry picked vents. 1922 had SOME ice free areas? Does he know why? Bet he does. And the Bering straits are clear every year now.
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