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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 18, 2023 13:47:47 GMT
Yeah but the average is 28 miles. And a 400 mile trip is very unusual. A 400 mile trip takes about 8 hours and should not be done without a break. I don't know what you did, but there are not that many places that are 400 miles away in the UK. London to Dundee perhaps? at a stroke? Hmm. It's not that unusual as I have already said. Watford Glasgow was a regular trip in one stop. The car I had was pretty economical. On one trip to Kent I clocked it at 70 mph average speed although it was a slow traffic day. The six-box helped that. Why the hell do you need to drive all the way from Watford to Glasgow. There is a railway station called Watford Gap. Can't you just use a train? I used to drive from Bucks to Manchester a fair bit and that journey was as boring as hell so I often used a train instead. You don't need to sit there concentrating for hours, rather just relax, even have a nap if you want. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Mar 18, 2023 15:18:19 GMT
It's not that unusual as I have already said. Watford Glasgow was a regular trip in one stop. The car I had was pretty economical. On one trip to Kent I clocked it at 70 mph average speed although it was a slow traffic day. The six-box helped that. Why the hell do you need to drive all the way from Watford to Glasgow. There is a railway station called Watford Gap. Can't you just use a train? I used to drive from Bucks to Manchester a fair bit and that journey was as boring as hell so I often used a train instead. You don't need to sit there concentrating for hours, rather just relax, even have a nap if you want. I do use the railway sometimes but often my trips are just not suitable for that. For a start I lived in Watford, not Watford Gap. I thought you might have known that. For Glasgow I'd have to go into London and then a local train to Watford. Then there is further trip from Glasgow to the customer's site which is not very close. That enough? But there is another significant issue. I carry a lot of essential equipment in my car. You wouldn't cart it all on the train. I think you haven't quite thought this through out. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 18, 2023 16:21:00 GMT
Yeah but the average is 28 miles. And a 400 mile trip is very unusual. A 400 mile trip takes about 8 hours and should not be done without a break. I don't know what you did, but there are not that many places that are 400 miles away in the UK. London to Dundee perhaps? at a stroke? Hmm. It's not that unusual as I have already said. Watford Glasgow was a regular trip in one stop. The car I had was pretty economical. On one trip to Kent I clocked it at 70 mph average speed although it was a slow traffic day. The six-box helped that. You did that regularly without a stop? Average speed on most journeys these days is 48mph, that includes the slow bits at the start and finish. But then on most motorways I find these days you spend a fair bit doing 60 as one lorry takes 5 miles to pass another one. I have businesses across the country and a 75 mile journey door to door takes 90 minutes. Anything round the M25 add another 30 minutes. But I do think we will need to consider the idea that EV's are not suitable for some jobs. A rep that travels from customer to customer may well clock up 400 miles in a day without any real chance to recharge without major inconvenience. I think the argument has got bogged down by the insistence that EV's are useless for everyone, when its actually only a few. One advantage I didn't expect from my Phev is that I rarely have to go to a petrol station as every night it tops up by 35 miles. Do you think we should consider giving licences to certain people to own ICE cars for their work? Maybe a plumber who can be called out at any time day or night, or the rep I describe above. I would be happy with that compromise. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Mar 18, 2023 17:40:24 GMT
It's not that unusual as I have already said. Watford Glasgow was a regular trip in one stop. The car I had was pretty economical. On one trip to Kent I clocked it at 70 mph average speed although it was a slow traffic day. The six-box helped that. You did that regularly without a stop? Average speed on most journeys these days is 48mph, that includes the slow bits at the start and finish. But then on most motorways I find these days you spend a fair bit doing 60 as one lorry takes 5 miles to pass another one. I have businesses across the country and a 75 mile journey door to door takes 90 minutes. Anything round the M25 add another 30 minutes. But I do think we will need to consider the idea that EV's are not suitable for some jobs. A rep that travels from customer to customer may well clock up 400 miles in a day without any real chance to recharge without major inconvenience. I think the argument has got bogged down by the insistence that EV's are useless for everyone, when its actually only a few. One advantage I didn't expect from my Phev is that I rarely have to go to a petrol station as every night it tops up by 35 miles. Do you think we should consider giving licences to certain people to own ICE cars for their work? Maybe a plumber who can be called out at any time day or night, or the rep I describe above. I would be happy with that compromise. Yes, the long trips. Probably not the most sensible thing but I liked to get home. I don't have a problem with electrical vesicles. I think they were a little earlier than internal combustion engines.but these had significant advances and more or eclipsed the EVs. But not quite. There are slots that the EVs continued use. One of this has been in industrial factories where combustion engines can't be used. And we get our milk by EV milk floats. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 18, 2023 18:26:34 GMT
You did that regularly without a stop? Average speed on most journeys these days is 48mph, that includes the slow bits at the start and finish. But then on most motorways I find these days you spend a fair bit doing 60 as one lorry takes 5 miles to pass another one. I have businesses across the country and a 75 mile journey door to door takes 90 minutes. Anything round the M25 add another 30 minutes. But I do think we will need to consider the idea that EV's are not suitable for some jobs. A rep that travels from customer to customer may well clock up 400 miles in a day without any real chance to recharge without major inconvenience. I think the argument has got bogged down by the insistence that EV's are useless for everyone, when its actually only a few. One advantage I didn't expect from my Phev is that I rarely have to go to a petrol station as every night it tops up by 35 miles. Do you think we should consider giving licences to certain people to own ICE cars for their work? Maybe a plumber who can be called out at any time day or night, or the rep I describe above. I would be happy with that compromise. Yes, the long trips. Probably not the most sensible thing but I liked to get home. I don't have a problem with electrical vesicles. I think they were a little earlier than internal combustion engines.but these had significant advances and more or eclipsed the EVs. But not quite. There are slots that the EVs continued use. One of this has been in industrial factories where combustion engines can't be used. And we get our milk by EV milk floats. I think modern EV's can do better than fork trucks and milk floats. Most car users could use an EV with little change to habits. Now whether you believe we need to stop/ can't stop climate change. Assume the government is pushing ahead with the reforms do you think we will need ICE vehicles for certain applications and could we licence such people, would this be a compromise. For myself I would like Phev's to continue to be allowed provided they have a minimum range of 30 miles on battery alone. Modern ones like mine are very good at using the battery as much as possible. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 18, 2023 18:36:48 GMT
Yes, the long trips. Probably not the most sensible thing but I liked to get home. I don't have a problem with electrical vesicles. I think they were a little earlier than internal combustion engines.but these had significant advances and more or eclipsed the EVs. But not quite. There are slots that the EVs continued use. One of this has been in industrial factories where combustion engines can't be used. And we get our milk by EV milk floats. I think modern EV's can do better than fork trucks and milk floats. Most car users could use an EV with little change to habits. Now whether you believe we need to stop/ can't stop climate change. Assume the government is pushing ahead with the reforms do you think we will need ICE vehicles for certain applications and could we licence such people, would this be a compromise. For myself I would like Phev's to continue to be allowed provided they have a minimum range of 30 miles on battery alone. Modern ones like mine are very good at using the battery as much as possible. Welcome to the brave new world where you need a permit to go about your business.. as long as some bureaucrat decides you are worthy.. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 18, 2023 18:41:24 GMT
I think modern EV's can do better than fork trucks and milk floats. Most car users could use an EV with little change to habits. Now whether you believe we need to stop/ can't stop climate change. Assume the government is pushing ahead with the reforms do you think we will need ICE vehicles for certain applications and could we licence such people, would this be a compromise. For myself I would like Phev's to continue to be allowed provided they have a minimum range of 30 miles on battery alone. Modern ones like mine are very good at using the battery as much as possible. Welcome to the brave new world where you need a permit to go about your business.. as long as some bureaucrat decides you are worthy.. Seriously? Are you in a cave. You need a licence to do a great many things and regulation controls a million more. You already need a licence to drive a car, a different one to tow a trailer and another to drive a lorry. A bureaucrat tells you if you can build an extension on your home or run a business from your garage. Get real. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Mar 18, 2023 18:57:56 GMT
Yes, the long trips. Probably not the most sensible thing but I liked to get home. I don't have a problem with electrical vesicles. I think they were a little earlier than internal combustion engines.but these had significant advances and more or eclipsed the EVs. But not quite. There are slots that the EVs continued use. One of this has been in industrial factories where combustion engines can't be used. And we get our milk by EV milk floats. I think modern EV's can do better than fork trucks and milk floats. Most car users could use an EV with little change to habits. Now whether you believe we need to stop/ can't stop climate change. Assume the government is pushing ahead with the reforms do you think we will need ICE vehicles for certain applications and could we licence such people, would this be a compromise. For myself I would like Phev's to continue to be allowed provided they have a minimum range of 30 miles on battery alone. Modern ones like mine are very good at using the battery as much as possible. I'm sure EVs do. Now I rarely drive at all. Mostly we get our goods get delivered to our door. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 19, 2023 2:51:41 GMT
Why the hell do you need to drive all the way from Watford to Glasgow. There is a railway station called Watford Gap. Can't you just use a train? I used to drive from Bucks to Manchester a fair bit and that journey was as boring as hell so I often used a train instead. You don't need to sit there concentrating for hours, rather just relax, even have a nap if you want. I do use the railway sometimes but often my trips are just not suitable for that. For a start I lived in Watford, not Watford Gap. I thought you might have known that. For Glasgow I'd have to go into London and then a local train to Watford. Then there is further trip from Glasgow to the customer's site which is not very close. That enough? But there is another significant issue. I carry a lot of essential equipment in my car. You wouldn't cart it all on the train. I think you haven't quite thought this through out. I agree, going into London is a nightmare. I had thought you could get on the line that runs to Manchester and then keep going north from that line.
You live in Watford now eh?I know it well. As a child I used to cycle there on a Saturday because it had 3 different electronics shops in it. One was Called Watford Electronics in Cardiff Road.
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 19, 2023 7:17:46 GMT
BEVs will have a niche market for people who do short trips - shopping cars etc. - but most people will want petrol cars that can be refilled quickly and travel further. Unfortunately most of the "advantages" of BEVs have disappeared. They're no longer cheaper to run and the CO2 emissions of battery manufacture mean that they don't cut CO2 emissions - and the environmental damage of lithium/cobalt mining is also a big problem. They're also very expensive to buy.
It's a bit like these heat pumps. Most people won't buy them because they're unsuitable for their needs - and simply can't practically be fitted to most of housing stock. And they're very expensive to buy and to run.
which leaves the governments "net zero" plans in tatters. At some point they going to realise that Hydrogen Fuel Cell (HFC) cars were the right way to go - and that hydrogen forms a very good way of storing renewable electrical energy. But this has been obvious for decades.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Mar 19, 2023 8:40:23 GMT
 You really have bought all this green nonsense hook, line and sinker, Zany. Even our daft politicians don't really believe it. They just know that they'll almost certainly be out of office by the time the shit hits the fan and people realise they've been conned. Among all the anti-green and anti-EV hysterical hyperbole and rhetoric, I've not seen any understandable explanation as to who it is that's driving this world-wide "con" of renewables and EV's, and what they are getting from it...
It’s all explained in this eye opening documentary … especially the last 1/2 hr. It headlined another discussion … did you miss it? … worth doing in a couple of sittings. I do. I wanted an EV but the wait was too long. Hybrids do NOT do 168mpg - except on the EU efficiency tests, where they can perform most of the test using battery power. In normal driving hybrids are the least efficient cars you can buy - unless you only use them on electric power and always charge them up using renewable energy. Which is highly unlikely. They're highly inefficient because generating electricity from a petrol engine is very inefficient form and carrying around a heavy battery is also very inefficient. It's much cleaner to buy the petrol version of whatever car you've got. You don't even understand the facts. Among all the anti-green and anti-EV hysterical hyperbole and rhetoric, I've not seen any understandable explanation as to who it is that's driving this world-wide "con" of renewables and EV's, and what they are getting from it...
What about "non-lethal warfare" By persuading a nation to aim for "net-zero" you seriously damage its economy so it's anti-capitalism - and there are a lot of people who want to destroy capitalism. Look at how we've exported all our business that uses a lot of energy, for example. We can't compete with China who use cheap coal power, so China benefits. Also by persuading people to buy useless, expensive BEVs you drive people off the roads - which is popular among many groups. There are loads of reasons that people might want to persuade stupid people to believe all this green nonsense. All your posts here are “on the nail” .👍 But my plug in hybrid does about 35 miles on battery alone so: I go to work 6 miles, I come home 6 miles and use no petrol. At the weekend, I go to town 16 miles, then on for a favourite walk 7 miles then home 19 miles Total 42 miles and use 7 miles of petrol. In a week that's 144 miles using 7 miles of fuel. Once a month or so I visit our other centres ave 180mile round trip on these my car averages 54mpg. Add that little lot up and you see why my car averages 168mpg … but the REAL World cannot function on the Micky Mouse ‘retirement trips’ mileage most WOKE numpties tootle around doing - trying to look smug and relaxed … when they are constantly fretting about ‘range anxiety’ … and ‘stressing’ the hypocrisy their electricity isn’t even Green. BEVs will have a niche market for people who do short trips - shopping cars etc. - but most people will want petrol cars that can be refilled quickly and travel further. Unfortunately most of the "advantages" of BEVs have disappeared. They're no longer cheaper to run and the CO2 emissions of battery manufacture mean that they don't cut CO2 emissions - and the environmental damage of lithium/cobalt mining is also a big problem. They're also very expensive to buy. It's a bit like these heat pumps. Most people won't buy them because they're unsuitable for their needs - and simply can't practically be fitted to most of housing stock. And they're very expensive to buy and to run. which leaves the governments "net zero" plans in tatters. At some point they going to realise that Hydrogen Fuel Cell (HFC) cars were the right way to go - and that hydrogen forms a very good way of storing renewable electrical energy. But this has been obvious for decades. A couple of questions … what is the total BTU energy debt mining and manufacturing a heat pump? … all it’s specialist component parts … the cost/energy lost scrapping coal/gas fired power stations prematurely … scrapping billions of boilers … transportation to factories/scrap yards … cost of recycling etc. These airey fairy Green statisticians can dig out the numbers on long term nuclear clean-up bills … but seem to whitewash and spirit away Green ‘extra expenses’. P.S. … I heard there were some ‘down sides’ to switching to ‘ hydrogen’ … |
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Post by besoeker3 on Mar 19, 2023 11:17:11 GMT
I do use the railway sometimes but often my trips are just not suitable for that. For a start I lived in Watford, not Watford Gap. I thought you might have known that. For Glasgow I'd have to go into London and then a local train to Watford. Then there is further trip from Glasgow to the customer's site which is not very close. That enough? But there is another significant issue. I carry a lot of essential equipment in my car. You wouldn't cart it all on the train. I think you haven't quite thought this through out. I agree, going into London is a nightmare. I had thought you could get on the line that runs to Manchester and then keep going north from that line.
You live in Watford now eh?I know it well. As a child I used to cycle there on a Saturday because it had 3 different electronics shops in it. One was Called Watford Electronics in Cardiff Road.
Yes, I knew Watford Electronics. Our office and workshops were on Old's Approach. I sometimes cycled to work along the Grand Union Canal. But I don't live there now. We moved up to Yorkshire mainly to be closer to family. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 19, 2023 13:59:31 GMT
I think modern EV's can do better than fork trucks and milk floats. Most car users could use an EV with little change to habits. Now whether you believe we need to stop/ can't stop climate change. Assume the government is pushing ahead with the reforms do you think we will need ICE vehicles for certain applications and could we licence such people, would this be a compromise. For myself I would like Phev's to continue to be allowed provided they have a minimum range of 30 miles on battery alone. Modern ones like mine are very good at using the battery as much as possible. Welcome to the brave new world where you need a permit to go about your business.. as long as some bureaucrat decides you are worthy.. Yes - there will also be emergent markets in permits, certificates of worthiness and their various derivatives |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 19, 2023 15:41:14 GMT
Right now it is possible to buy a two seater EV that flies with a maximum range of 30km. I think this is an exciting development because although 30km does not sound very far, you can do a lot more with it. I mean take one example of mountain rescue or as a taxi to a high class hotel from the airport. Of course for these applications you can just switch the battery pack for the next customer. I think British firms aught to get in there and start making them. Give it a few years and that 30km range will be 60km, 90km, 120km...If you want to make money though you need to be in the business from the start to acquire the know-how.
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Post by Toreador on Mar 19, 2023 16:27:55 GMT
I agree, going into London is a nightmare. I had thought you could get on the line that runs to Manchester and then keep going north from that line.
You live in Watford now eh?I know it well. As a child I used to cycle there on a Saturday because it had 3 different electronics shops in it. One was Called Watford Electronics in Cardiff Road.
Yes, I knew Watford Electronics. Our office and workshops were on Old's Approach. I sometimes cycled to work along the Grand Union Canal. But I don't live there now. We moved up to Yorkshire mainly to be closer to family. Wewre you the one who nearly knocked me over at West Drayton? |
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You really have bought all this green nonsense hook, line and sinker, Zany. Even our daft politicians don't really believe it. They just know that they'll almost certainly be out of office by the time the shit hits the fan and people realise they've been conned.
