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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 18:34:23 GMT
Still more verbal diarrhoea in a thread that seems dedicated to those who don’t understand the difference between climate and weather… Why don't you explain... Its pretty simple. The climate causes the weather. The climate is controlled by energy in the form of heat from our sun. The weather is the result of how much hot air rises and how quickly it does so. Basically the more heat the more extreme the weather. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 11, 2023 18:39:16 GMT
There’s no point. If those claiming that today being cold and snowy shows global warming and climate change is a farce then we’d need to start way back at infant school level… How would you and ZG, explain the 'fact' that 2000 years ago was the warmest period in recent history? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 18:40:26 GMT
But we know the planet is warming, so your hypothesis doesn't hold. Its not random its driven ZG, there's a critical word you neglected to mention. We know the planet is warming ' again'. Will someone let lefty alarmists know that global cooling/warming is not a new phenomenon, for Christs sake this is hardly a secret. But thanks to the internet, 24/7 news media and the Twittersphere, inexperienced and impressionable young people (see the sainted Greta) think the end is nigh. I have explained this to you so many times. The earth has warmed and cooled very many times, mostly before humans existed. Each time there was a reason for it warming or cooling and each time our scientists have looked at the evidence and told us why it happened. The sun cooled, the planet wobbled, a gigantic ice dam collapsed, the continents moved etc. This time its just the same, the scientists looked at the evidence and gave us the reason, this time is man made Co2. You feel free to take the piss out of a young concerned girl, but you don't trump the IPCC or NASA with your sneering. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 18:42:51 GMT
There’s no point. If those claiming that today being cold and snowy shows global warming and climate change is a farce then we’d need to start way back at infant school level… How would you and ZG, explain the 'fact' that 2000 years ago was the warmest period in recent history? I've told you this 3 times are you blind? "The historical warming of the Med during the Roman Empire is linked to intense solar activity, which contrasts with the modern threat of greenhouse gases. " |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 11, 2023 18:43:59 GMT
ZG, there's a critical word you neglected to mention. We know the planet is warming ' again'. Will someone let lefty alarmists know that global cooling/warming is not a new phenomenon, for Christs sake this is hardly a secret. But thanks to the internet, 24/7 news media and the Twittersphere, inexperienced and impressionable young people (see the sainted Greta) think the end is nigh. I have explained this to you so many times. The earth has warmed and cooled very many times, mostly before humans existed. Each time there was a reason for it warming or cooling and each time our scientists have looked at the evidence and told us why it happened. The sun cooled, the planet wobbled, a gigantic ice dam collapsed, the continents moved etc. This time its just the same, the scientists looked at the evidence and gave us the reason, this time is man made Co2. You feel free to take the piss out of a young concerned girl, but you don't trump the IPCC or NASA with your sneering. ZG, believe me there are scientists who disagree with that. However, assuming for a moment you're correct. What effect do you think the UK (0.8% of the worlds population) can make on a global level? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 11, 2023 18:45:40 GMT
How would you and ZG, explain the 'fact' that 2000 years ago was the warmest period in recent history? I've told you this 3 times are you blind? "The historical warming of the Med during the Roman Empire is linked to intense solar activity, which contrasts with the modern threat of greenhouse gases. " I'm not a scientist so I may need a link, if you please... |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 11, 2023 18:47:33 GMT
This is the bitch. Even if there were a long-term warming bias, how can you be certain. That answer is you can not be if it is fractal. For all you know you might be in a warm spell of the natural pattern or in a cold spell, but then you don't even know if that is moderately cold and it might go even colder, even with a warming bias. This is because your averaging trick simply fails to be valid. think about it - it s right mind-bender and a little anti-intuitive. Nothing in science is ever certain, you must know that. But the evidence that Co2 causes warming and that we are increasing Co2 concentrations is very strong If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck most scientists would agree its a duck. What we do know is when the world is in a warm spell and when its in a cold spell. so unless you are proposing some unknown energy not yet noticed by science then the duck is a duck. There is a lot in science which is certain, as in most of fundamental physics. That's a throw-away comment.
I'm just providing a hypothesis here which is difficult to disprove, but admittedly difficult to prove as well. Even a simple system can exhibit complex behaviour, and this type of behaviour comes from the physical properties of the system itself. Some complex behaviour yields a fractal system. I posted a video on this in the Mind Zone but I doubt anyone here would be interested. These types of system are difficult to work with because the number of permutations exceeds our current computer abilities. It can be demonstrated in a simplified form on a computer though. Unfortunately, as it was with covid, the media debate is remedial. I think it does more harm than good sometimes. Covid by the way is another example of a complex system. Nature is full of them. The infection rates per county and per town and per street were a fractal. It made it indecipherable.
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Post by patman post on Mar 11, 2023 18:54:53 GMT
There’s no point. If those claiming that today being cold and snowy shows global warming and climate change is a farce then we’d need to start way back at infant school level… How would you and ZG, explain the 'fact' that 2000 years ago was the warmest period in recent history? Personally, I don’t think I have to — I’m neither claiming it did or didn’t happen nor claiming that I know any cause for those two states… |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 19:04:28 GMT
I have explained this to you so many times. The earth has warmed and cooled very many times, mostly before humans existed. Each time there was a reason for it warming or cooling and each time our scientists have looked at the evidence and told us why it happened. The sun cooled, the planet wobbled, a gigantic ice dam collapsed, the continents moved etc. This time its just the same, the scientists looked at the evidence and gave us the reason, this time is man made Co2. You feel free to take the piss out of a young concerned girl, but you don't trump the IPCC or NASA with your sneering. ZG, believe me there are scientists who disagree with that. However, assuming for a moment you're correct. What effect do you think the UK (0.8% of the worlds population) can make on a global level? There are always scientists that dispute anything even gravity. But the consensus is as I state and is evidenced by increased many things not least the fact that it was not global and largely effected the almost land locked Mediterranean sea and lands around it. I'm going to have to create a stuck record answer sheet for this subject as well. I answered this question to yourself only a few weeks back. I make it a policy to answer people if I can, not to dodge or prevaricate. But its unfair to have me answer, ignore what I say and keep repeating the question like you expect the answer to somehow align with what you want it to be. Our effect is 1.2% of the warming, shrunk from 3%. But we are leading the way and others are following most civilised nations (Also the main offenders) are doing as we do, so between us we are having a significant effect. Also by doing the field work and making renewables viable, other countries will adopt the proven technology. And just to head you off. China also cares about climate change, they have only slowed their building of nuclear because of concerns about safety. So as a stop gap they have opened coal powered stations. They have stated they will be carbon neutral by 2060. Does China care about climate change? They have 30% of the population and 6% of the water, yep they care. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 19:05:10 GMT
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 19:09:47 GMT
Nothing in science is ever certain, you must know that. But the evidence that Co2 causes warming and that we are increasing Co2 concentrations is very strong If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck most scientists would agree its a duck. What we do know is when the world is in a warm spell and when its in a cold spell. so unless you are proposing some unknown energy not yet noticed by science then the duck is a duck. There is a lot in science which is certain, as in most of fundamental physics. That's a throw-away comment.
I'm just providing a hypothesis here which is difficult to disprove, but admittedly difficult to prove as well. Even a simple system can exhibit complex behaviour, and this type of behaviour comes from the physical properties of the system itself. Some complex behaviour yields a fractal system. I posted a video on this in the Mind Zone but I doubt anyone here would be interested. These types of system are difficult to work with because the number of permutations exceeds our current computer abilities. It can be demonstrated in a simplified form on a computer though. Unfortunately, as it was with covid, the media debate is remedial. I think it does more harm than good sometimes. Covid by the way is another example of a complex system. Nature is full of them. The infection rates per county and per town and per street were a fractal. It made it indecipherable.
On a different thread I might well be interested in exploring the theory, (though you might be out of my league on fractal systems) but on here I am trying to stick to known facts and accepted science with its evidence. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 11, 2023 19:11:09 GMT
ZG, believe me there are scientists who disagree with that. However, assuming for a moment you're correct. What effect do you think the UK (0.8% of the worlds population) can make on a global level? There are always scientists that dispute anything even gravity. But the consensus is as I state and is evidenced by increased many things not least the fact that it was not global and largely effected the almost land locked Mediterranean sea and lands around it. I'm going to have to create a stuck record answer sheet for this subject as well. I answered this question to yourself only a few weeks back. I make it a policy to answer people if I can, not to dodge or prevaricate. But its unfair to have me answer, ignore what I say and keep repeating the question like you expect the answer to somehow align with what you want it to be. Our effect is 1.2% of the warming, shrunk from 3%. But we are leading the way and others are following most civilised nations (Also the main offenders) are doing as we do, so between us we are having a significant effect. Also by doing the field work and making renewables viable, other countries will adopt the proven technology. And just to head you off. China also cares about climate change, they have only slowed their building of nuclear because of concerns about safety. So as a stop gap they have opened coal powered stations. They have stated they will be carbon neutral by 2060. Does China care about climate change? They have 30% of the population and 6% of the water, yep they care. The reality - unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/ |
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Post by Orac on Mar 11, 2023 19:13:18 GMT
There’s no point. If those claiming that today being cold and snowy shows global warming and climate change is a farce then we’d need to start way back at infant school level… I think you may have a misunderstanding Zany is attempting to recruit the fact that the UK has snow in March as some kind of symptomatic evidence of an oncoming climate catastrophe. He was pulled up a bit earlier on this, but is now making a second run at it. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 19:16:20 GMT
There are always scientists that dispute anything even gravity. But the consensus is as I state and is evidenced by increased many things not least the fact that it was not global and largely effected the almost land locked Mediterranean sea and lands around it. I'm going to have to create a stuck record answer sheet for this subject as well. I answered this question to yourself only a few weeks back. I make it a policy to answer people if I can, not to dodge or prevaricate. But its unfair to have me answer, ignore what I say and keep repeating the question like you expect the answer to somehow align with what you want it to be. Our effect is 1.2% of the warming, shrunk from 3%. But we are leading the way and others are following most civilised nations (Also the main offenders) are doing as we do, so between us we are having a significant effect. Also by doing the field work and making renewables viable, other countries will adopt the proven technology. And just to head you off. China also cares about climate change, they have only slowed their building of nuclear because of concerns about safety. So as a stop gap they have opened coal powered stations. They have stated they will be carbon neutral by 2060. Does China care about climate change? They have 30% of the population and 6% of the water, yep they care. The reality - unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/Industry has called for it. Industry calls for low tax and regulation, they don't get it. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2023 19:17:41 GMT
There’s no point. If those claiming that today being cold and snowy shows global warming and climate change is a farce then we’d need to start way back at infant school level… I think you may have a misunderstanding Zany is attempting to recruit the fact that the UK has snow in March as some kind of symptomatic evidence of an oncoming climate catastrophe. He was pulled up a bit earlier on this, but is now making a second run at it. No Zany isn't. Zany has explained that to you. Zany is sorry its beyond you to understand and beneath you to ask. |
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