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Post by see2 on Mar 9, 2023 8:31:28 GMT
Do you mean they are 300% more intelligent, or the number of passes increased? The amount with the intelligence capable of passing with top marks increased from 8% to 24% - a 300% increase. The number of students educated enough to pass with top marks increased from 8% to 24%. Say thank you very much to NL for investing in and improving the educational system. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 9, 2023 8:35:25 GMT
The amount with the intelligence capable of passing with top marks increased from 8% to 24% - a 300% increase. The number of students educated enough to pass with top marks increased from 8% to 24%. Say thank you very much to NL for investing in and improving the educational system. Improving the education system so much that our PISA scores fell..  |
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Post by see2 on Mar 9, 2023 8:35:40 GMT
Circumstances do have there affect. If you are determined to ignore that fact, and the best you can come up with is in your post, it shows what is possibly a deliberate lack of depth of thought. The school may have done better without the remedial pupils and the no hopers . They might have been able to offer a better standard of education . Possibly, but such schools were designed to separate and to deal with all comers. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 9, 2023 8:41:33 GMT
The number of students educated enough to pass with top marks increased from 8% to 24%. Say thank you very much to NL for investing in and improving the educational system. Improving the education system so much that our PISA scores fell.. I was referring to the top echelon not the total across the whole of the 15 year old students, Even then it only happened after a Tory government was elected Continued improvement under NL immediate increasing failure under the Tories |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 9, 2023 9:44:00 GMT
Exams are not set to determine the development level, they are set to determine how much a child has learnt. If the haven't learnt enought to pass, are you saying they must be underdeveloped? No, I'm pointing out the obvious that a late developing child is put at a disadvantage by the 11+ system. So at what age should exams be held? |
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Post by ratcliff on Mar 9, 2023 10:07:00 GMT
So , your idea would be for those who aren't bright enough to take an exam for 11 year olds (you call them late developers ) to take the same exam for 11 year olds at age 13 and see if they pass? What then? You put the 13 year old in the class for bright 11 year olds? You seem to have entirely missed what the words 'late developer' mean. It doesn't mean not bright, it means developed later. No , I want to know where you put the so called late developing 13 year old who can now pass an exam for 11 year olds (but not for 13 year olds) Do they go in the 11 year old class or do you put them in the 13 year old class when they aren't up to 13 year old standard? What about when they they can't pass the 11 year old exam till they are say , 18 or 20? What excuses do you make up for them? |
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Post by ratcliff on Mar 9, 2023 10:11:12 GMT
No, I'm pointing out the obvious that a late developing child is put at a disadvantage by the 11+ system. So at what age should exams be held? Don't be silly The answer is never , then no-one can fail and be disadvantaged because they find exams beyond their ability  |
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Post by see2 on Mar 9, 2023 11:01:17 GMT
No, I'm pointing out the obvious that a late developing child is put at a disadvantage by the 11+ system. So at what age should exams be held? In the case where one is dealing with late developers, early developers and all those in-between, it should not IMO be a case of age, it should be a case of move according to ones ability. If an 11 year old can deal with 12 year old lessons, then why not allow that to happen. And ditto for the rest according to ability regardless of age. All within practicality of course. Individuals do not choose their level of development or their ability. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 9, 2023 11:07:51 GMT
You seem to have entirely missed what the words 'late developer' mean. It doesn't mean not bright, it means developed later. No , I want to know where you put the so called late developing 13 year old who can now pass an exam for 11 year olds (but not for 13 year olds) Do they go in the 11 year old class or do you put them in the 13 year old class when they aren't up to 13 year old standard? What about when they they can't pass the 11 year old exam till they are say , 18 or 20? What excuses do you make up for them? So you have decided to make an issue out of an attempt to explain to you the difference the level of physical and mental development can make. What point is there in doing that? |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 9, 2023 11:48:18 GMT
So at what age should exams be held? In the case where one is dealing with late developers, early developers and all those in-between, it should not IMO be a case of age, it should be a case of move according to ones ability. If an 11 year old can deal with 12 year old lessons, then why not allow that to happen. And ditto for the rest according to ability regardless of age. All within practicality of course. Individuals do not choose their level of development or their ability. I knew of the odd ocasion when a pupil was promoted into a higher age group because they were too good and even more when a pupil was dropped a grade in thew hope he would catch up. However, one of the problems is that the teaching standard and delivery may be different and not have the desired effect particularly with those moving up a grade. I'm wondering whether to drop you down a grade or two.  |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 9, 2023 12:27:56 GMT
So at what age should exams be held? In the case where one is dealing with late developers, early developers and all those in-between, it should not IMO be a case of age, it should be a case of move according to ones ability. If an 11 year old can deal with 12 year old lessons, then why not allow that to happen. And ditto for the rest according to ability regardless of age. All within practicality of course. Individuals do not choose their level of development or their ability. Because in a comprehensive school the 11 year old will be mixing with kids a year older and be subject to bullying . In a school aimed at a more academic and technical education the children will be less likely to bully and the class will be better equip to deal with it. |
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Post by ratcliff on Mar 9, 2023 13:07:58 GMT
No , I want to know where you put the so called late developing 13 year old who can now pass an exam for 11 year olds (but not for 13 year olds) Do they go in the 11 year old class or do you put them in the 13 year old class when they aren't up to 13 year old standard? What about when they they can't pass the 11 year old exam till they are say , 18 or 20? What excuses do you make up for them? So you have decided to make an issue out of an attempt to explain to you the difference the level of physical and mental development can make. What point is there in doing that? No you made a statement that your so called late developer age 13 can only pass the 11 year old exam I've asked twice now (and expanded the question) - where do they fit into your idea of where to educate them ? |
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Post by see2 on Mar 10, 2023 14:19:07 GMT
In the case where one is dealing with late developers, early developers and all those in-between, it should not IMO be a case of age, it should be a case of move according to ones ability. If an 11 year old can deal with 12 year old lessons, then why not allow that to happen. And ditto for the rest according to ability regardless of age. All within practicality of course. Individuals do not choose their level of development or their ability. I knew of the odd ocasion when a pupil was promoted into a higher age group because they were too good and even more when a pupil was dropped a grade in thew hope he would catch up. However, one of the problems is that the teaching standard and delivery may be different and not have the desired effect particularly with those moving up a grade. I'm wondering whether to drop you down a grade or two. IMO assessments could be made by the people who knew the individuals and know their class work, mistakes were possible but readjustments would be available. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 10, 2023 14:23:07 GMT
In the case where one is dealing with late developers, early developers and all those in-between, it should not IMO be a case of age, it should be a case of move according to ones ability. If an 11 year old can deal with 12 year old lessons, then why not allow that to happen. And ditto for the rest according to ability regardless of age. All within practicality of course. Individuals do not choose their level of development or their ability. Because in a comprehensive school the 11 year old will be mixing with kids a year older and be subject to bullying . In a school aimed at a more academic and technical education the children will be less likely to bully and the class will be better equip to deal with it. I disagree. There is no excuse for indiscipline like bullying to be ignored in any school. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2023 14:25:11 GMT
Because in a comprehensive school the 11 year old will be mixing with kids a year older and be subject to bullying . In a school aimed at a more academic and technical education the children will be less likely to bully and the class will be better equip to deal with it. I disagree. There is no excuse for indiscipline like bullying to be ignored in any school. You missed the point then .. |
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